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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#371

Post by direwolf20 »

tokai wrote: post #33
vessenes wrote: post #9

Interesting. This is basically the second enforcement on speech / images that France has done - first was Pavel Durov @ Telegram. He eventually made changes in Telegram's moderation infrastructure and I think was allowed to leave France sometime last year. I don't love heavy-handed enforcement on speech issues, but I do really like a heterogenous cultural situation, so I think it's interesting and probably to the ove…

In what world is generating CSAM a speech issue? Its really doing a disservice to actual free speech issues to frame it was such.

if pictures are speech, then either CSAM is speech, or you have to justify an exception to the general rule.

CSAM is banned speech.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#372

Post by caminante »

pyrale wrote: post #302
caminante wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>notorious What happened to due process? Every major firm should have a "dawn raid" policy to comply while preserving rights. Specific to the Uber case(s), if it were illegal, then why didn't Uber get criminal charges or fines? At best there's an argument that it was "obstructing justice," but logging people off, encrypting, and deleting local copies isn't necessarily illegal.

> if it were illegal, then why didn't Uber get criminal charges or fines? They had a sweet deal with Macron. Prosecution became hard to continue once he got involved.

Maybe.

Or they had a weak case. Prosecutors even drop winnable cases because they don't want to lose.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#373

Post by direwolf20 »

vessenes wrote: post #87
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very different charges however. Durov was held on suspicion Telegram was willingly failing to moderate its platform and allowed drug trafficking and other illegal activities to take place. X has allegedly illegally sent data to the US in violation of GDPR and contributed to child porn distribution. Note that both are directly related to direct violation of data safety law or association with a separate criminal activ…

I like your username, by the way. CSAM was the lead in the 2024 news headlines in the French prosecution of Telegram also. I didn't follow the case enough to know where they went, or what the judge thought was credible. From a US mindset, I'd say that generation of communication, including images, would fall under speech. But then we classify it very broadly here. Arranging drug deals on a messaging app definitely fa…

In some shady corners of the internet I still see advertisements for child porn through Telegram, so they must be doing a shit job at it

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#374

Post by direwolf20 »

vessenes wrote: post #89
logicchains wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I do really like a heterogenous cultural situation, so I think it's interesting and probably to the overall good to have a country pushing on these matters very hard Censorship increases homogeneity, because it reduces the amount of ideas and opinions that are allowed to be expressed. The only resilience that comes from restricting people's speech is resilience of the people in power.

You were downvoted -- a theme in this thread -- but I like what you're saying. I disagree, though, on a global scale. By resilience, I mean to reference something like a monoculture plantation vs a jungle. The monoculture plantation is vulnerable to anything that figures out how to attack it. In a jungle, a single plant or set might be vulnerable, but something that can attack all the plants is much harder to come by…

They were downvoted for completely misunderstanding the comment they replied to.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#375

Post by direwolf20 »

derrida wrote: post #10
vessenes wrote: post #9

Interesting. This is basically the second enforcement on speech / images that France has done - first was Pavel Durov @ Telegram. He eventually made changes in Telegram's moderation infrastructure and I think was allowed to leave France sometime last year. I don't love heavy-handed enforcement on speech issues, but I do really like a heterogenous cultural situation, so I think it's interesting and probably to the ove…

I wouldn't equate the two. There's someone who was being held responsible for what was in encrypted chats. Then there's someone who published depictions of sexual abuse and minors. Worlds apart.

Telegram isn't encrypted. For all the marketing about security, it has none, apart from TLS, and an optional "secret chat" feature that you have to explicitly select, only works with 2 participants and doesn't work very well.

They can read all messages, so they don't have an excuse for not helping in a criminal case. Their platform had a reputation of being safe for crime, which is because they just... ignored the police. Until they got arrested for that. They still turn a blind eye but not to the police.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#376

Post by direwolf20 »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #79
antonymoose wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge Musk asked to go but never actually went. Clinton, however, went a dozen or so times with Epstein on his private jet? Has the latest release changed that narrative?

Additionally Clinton is listed several times on the Lolita express flight logs, Elon never Elon didn't ask to go, he was invited multiple times

If Elon never asked to go, why do the Epstein files have an email from Elon to Jeff where Elon asks to go? Was it fabricated?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#377

Post by SanjayMehta »

almosthere wrote: post #370
SanjayMehta wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump kidnapped Maduro to show the latter his place, but then the US is neither China nor Western Europe so that does not count.

Arrested and the vast majority of Venezuela love that it happened. https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/venezuela-survey-trump-ma...

Rand Paul asked Rubio what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot. Every US President from Truman onwards is a war criminal.

https://www.tampafp.com/rand-paul-and-marco-rubio-clash-over...

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#378

Post by scottyah »

int_19h wrote: post #283
malfist wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is very much illegal in the US

It wouldn't be the first time a Musk company knowingly does something illegal. I think as far as Musk is concerned, laws only apply in the "don't get caught" sense.

Everyone defines their own moral code and trusts that more than the laws of the land. Don't tell me you've never gone over the speed limit, or broken one of the hundreds of crazy laws people break in everyday life out of ignorance.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#379

Post by chrisjj »

wasabi991011 wrote: post #244
chrisjj wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't understand your point. In a further comment you are using a US-focused organization to define an English-language acronym. How does this relate to a French investigation?

US uses English - quite a lot actually.

As for how it relates, well if the French do find that "Grok's CSAM Plan" file, they'll need to know what that acronym stands for. Right?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#380

Post by tomlockwood »

yodsanklai wrote: post #333
alex1138 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon is literally in the files, talking about going to the island. It's documented

Who knows who did what on this island, and I hope we'll figure it out. But in the meantime, going to this island or/and being friend with Epstein doesn't automatically make someone a pedo or rapist.

Yes yes such a complex situation and so hard to tell whether the guy with the pedo non-con site wanted to go to the pedo non-con island.
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