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The Codex App

openai.com

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Re: The Codex App

#421

Post by supriyo-biswas »

preston-kwei wrote: post #419
herval wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just irrelevant for most users. These companies are getting more adoption than they can handle, no matter how clunky their desktop apps are. They’re optimizing for experimentation. Not performance.

While this may be true for casual users, for dev native products like Codex, the desktop experience actually matters a lot. When you are living in the tool for hours, latency, keyboard handling, file system access, and OS-level integration stop being “nice to have” and start affecting real productivity. web or Electron apps are fine for experimentation, but they hit a ceiling fast for serious workflows -- especially…

[flagged]

Re: The Codex App

#422

Post by deaux »

IhateAI wrote: post #410
deaux wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open weights means that the current prices for inference of Chinese models are indicative of their cost to run because. https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k2.5 It's a fantasy to believe that every single one of these 8 providers is serving at incredibly subsidized dumping prices 50% below cost and once that runs out suddenly you'll pay double for 1M of tokens for this model. It's incredibly competitive with Sonnet…

I'm not making any guesses, I happen to know for a fact what it costs. Please go try to sell inference and compete on price. You actually have no clue what you're talking about. I knew when I sent that response I was going to get "but Kimi!"

Okay, so you are claiming "every single one of those 8 providers, along with all others who don't serve openrouter but are at similar price points, are subsidizing by more than 50%".

That's an incredibly bold claim that would need quite a bit of evidence, and just waving "$500k in gpus" isn't it. Especially when individuals are reporting more than enough tps at native int4 with <$80k setups, without any of the scaling benefits that commercial inference providers have.

Re: The Codex App

#423

Post by preston-kwei »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #421
preston-kwei wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this may be true for casual users, for dev native products like Codex, the desktop experience actually matters a lot. When you are living in the tool for hours, latency, keyboard handling, file system access, and OS-level integration stop being “nice to have” and start affecting real productivity. web or Electron apps are fine for experimentation, but they hit a ceiling fast for serious workflows -- especially…

[flagged]

Well unfortunately, that’s just how I write. None of my posts are LLM-generated, so I'm sorry they come across that way.

Re: The Codex App

#424

Post by pram »

lvl155 wrote: post #230
_23sd wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if they were targeting "software engineers" in general then Windows would be the obvious choice in 2026 as much as in 2006. But these early releases are all about the SF bubble where Mac is very much dominant.

Really? I frankly don’t know anyone who’s not on Linux. If you do any AI/ML you basically find yourself on a Linux box eventually. Perhaps I live in a bubble.

Yes, you live in a bubble.

Re: The Codex App

#425

Post by rainprincess »

OlympicMarmoto wrote: post #220

It is baffling how these AI companies, with billions of dollars, cannot build native applications, even with the help of AI. From a UI perspective, these are mostly just chat apps, which are not particularly difficult to code from scratch. Before the usual excuses come about how it is impossible to build a custom UI, consider software that is orders of magnitude more complex, such as raddbg, 10x, Superluminal, Blende…

I feel like it's because of the way they are internally structured. They have some people who are machine learning trained on post-training, and other people who have nice product management resumes. The post-training people want more compute, well-formatted data, honestly more ways to try whatever technique of reinforcement learning they want.

The product people are building things, but OpenAI has literally been throwing stuff at the wall and it hasn't been sticking. They seem to be behind in terms of everything user interface. Canvas came after Anthropic had artifacts. Codex came after Anthropic had Claude Code.

Some of their researchers (okay one) have (has) stated they believe in interface work. That's because GUIs help engage the person beyond thought, and help the person work with more complexity (perception, physics, form, 3D). But they're playing catchup, or they're trying to incubate wins in science / math.

Re: The Codex App

#426

Post by frumplestlatz »

afiori wrote: post #411
frumplestlatz wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McDonald’s isn’t hurting for customers either. Doesn’t mean their food is anything a chef ought to aspire to.

Neither it means that McDonald's should aspire to be a chef

Sure, aspiring to mediocrity at a cost to others is a choice.

Re: The Codex App

#427

Post by tombert »

namelosw wrote: post #255
OlympicMarmoto wrote: post #220

It is baffling how these AI companies, with billions of dollars, cannot build native applications, even with the help of AI. From a UI perspective, these are mostly just chat apps, which are not particularly difficult to code from scratch. Before the usual excuses come about how it is impossible to build a custom UI, consider software that is orders of magnitude more complex, such as raddbg, 10x, Superluminal, Blende…

The situation for Desktop development is nasty. Microsoft had so many halfassed frameworks and nobody knows which one to use. It’s probably the de facto platform on Windows IS Electron, and Microsoft use them often, too. On MacOS is much better. But most of the team either ended up with locked in Mac-only or go cross platform with Electron.

I guess it shows how geriatric I am with desktop app development these days, but does no one use Qt anymore? Wasn't the dream for that to be a portable and native platform to write GUI apps? Presumably that could abstract away which bullshit Microsoft framework they came out with this week.

I haven't touched desktop application programming in a very long time and I have no desire to ever do so again after trying to learn raw GTK a million years ago, so I'm admittedly kind of speaking out of my ass here.

Re: The Codex App

#428

Post by csomar »

herval wrote: post #363
OlympicMarmoto wrote: post #220

It is baffling how these AI companies, with billions of dollars, cannot build native applications, even with the help of AI. From a UI perspective, these are mostly just chat apps, which are not particularly difficult to code from scratch. Before the usual excuses come about how it is impossible to build a custom UI, consider software that is orders of magnitude more complex, such as raddbg, 10x, Superluminal, Blende…

It’s just irrelevant for most users. These companies are getting more adoption than they can handle, no matter how clunky their desktop apps are. They’re optimizing for experimentation. Not performance.

It's not irrelevant for developers neither for users. Tiktok has shown that users deeply care about the experience and they'll flock en-masse to something that has a good experience.

Re: The Codex App

#429

Post by wizzledonker »

namelosw wrote: post #255
OlympicMarmoto wrote: post #220

It is baffling how these AI companies, with billions of dollars, cannot build native applications, even with the help of AI. From a UI perspective, these are mostly just chat apps, which are not particularly difficult to code from scratch. Before the usual excuses come about how it is impossible to build a custom UI, consider software that is orders of magnitude more complex, such as raddbg, 10x, Superluminal, Blende…

The situation for Desktop development is nasty. Microsoft had so many halfassed frameworks and nobody knows which one to use. It’s probably the de facto platform on Windows IS Electron, and Microsoft use them often, too. On MacOS is much better. But most of the team either ended up with locked in Mac-only or go cross platform with Electron.

Qt with QML works fine. The real reason is that companies can't hire enough native developers because the skill is comparitively rare.

Re: The Codex App

#430

Post by frumplestlatz »

blackoil wrote: post #415
jarek-foksa wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customers simply don't care. I don't recall a single complain about RAM or disk usage of my Electron-based app to be reported in the past 10 years. You will be outcompeted if you waste your time reinventing the wheel and optimizing for stuff that doesn't matter. There is some market for highly optimized apps like e.g. Sublime Text, but you can clearly see that the companies behind them are struggling.

Even with SublimeText, most popular IDE is VSCode, most popular interface design tool Figma, all popular chat platforms and so on are all electron based. If people were desperate for faster platforms they'll be migrating to them.

Your mistaking supply-side path dependent outcomes that produce a lack of consumer choice with consumer preference. No consumer prefers slow, bloated, non-native software, but they're stuck with what they can get.
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