Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

frommers.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 780 posts

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#321

Post by WaitWaitWha »

_bohm wrote: post #312
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #308

If Real ID is so good, why do we have CLEAR? Why can I not skip the line with RealID? If we are forced RealID, why not just make all the TSA checkpoints like Global Entry (or in several countries with IDs), fully automate them, using Real ID. That would get rid of CLEAR, and a lot of TSA agents.

Clear has nothing to do with security. You’re just paying to cut the security line.

Disagree.

CLEAR is basically (mostly) self-service pre-verification by a commercial entity, achieves near the same exact thing as it is done at the TSA agent with RealID now.

The CLEAR system uses CAT or CAT-2 to send info to TSA to validate. Same, exact protocol and information as it is with the TSA Agent.

The only meaningful difference is that the biometrics is pre-stored with CLEAR, while the other travelers are collected at the TSA agent stands and compared to RealID.

There are multiple countries where all of this is done with dark technomagic. You can see this witchcraft working with Global Entry (CBP, not TSA).

What is interesting about this is that CLEAR has a relationship with the airports (mostly), not TSA. Airports are the ones pushing CLEAR so they do not have insane queues, not TSA.

Wait till you see PreCheck Touchless ID.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#323

Post by noduerme »

caseysoftware wrote: post #160
paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

Nice trick. I always opted out of the scanners, dozens of times, and just got used to bantering with guys while they were patting my balls.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#324

Post by defrost »

chaboud wrote: post #317
sargun wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ethnicity are you? I went through an airport -- and nobody else got screened except me. What was special about me? I was the only non-white person in the airport. Upon complaining, this was the response: > Random selection by our screening technology prevents terrorists from attempting to defeat the security system by learning how it operates. Leaving out any one group, such as senior citizens, persons with disa…

I used to have a Sikh manager who wore a turban. Whenever we traveled together, he would get "randomly" stopped. While they were patting him down, he would inevitably chuckle and say something like "So what are the odds of being 'randomly' selected 27 times in a row?" I don't know the specifics of the process for selection, but I can confidently say that the process is bigoted.

In proper English usage it would only be a bigoted

  (obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group)
check if it was unreasonable to suspect a Sikh of carrying a Kirpan.

The Rehat Maryada would suggest that is in no way whatsoever an unreasonable suspicion.

Sure, your manager likely didn't carry one on airplanes .. but that still falls short of being an unreasonable check.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#325

Post by intermerda »

rayiner wrote: post #125

Saying that there is “no legal requirement to show an ID” is truthy but misleading. Federal law gives the TSA authority over “screening” passengers: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/44901 (“The Administrator of the Transportation Security Administration shall provide for the screening of all passengers and property, including United States mail, cargo, carry-on and checked baggage, and other articles, that…

You seem to be under the impression that the word "screening" means TSA can do whatever it wants. When in fact, if you click on the link under the word "Screening" in the own link you posted, there is a definition provided.

> (4) Screening defined .— In this subsection the term “screening” means a physical examination or non-intrusive methods of assessing whether cargo poses a threat to transportation security.

You should consider reading what you posted.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#326

Post by jpalawaga »

spike021 wrote: post #223
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

Today was the second time in a year I went into one and my crotch got flagged because of my pants zipper. nothing in my pockets. no belt. nothing hidden. etc. I was then subjected to full pat down and a shoe chemical test as a cherry on top. Might need to try convincing them next time to let me do the metal detector instead. What's the point of this higher fidelity scanner if it can't tell the difference between a fl…

This podcast episode might be of interest. https://www.searchengine.show/a-perfectly-average-anomaly/

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#327

Post by Braxton1980 »

crazygringo wrote: post #36
paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

It may be many things, but I very much doubt the motivation is a money grab . A few people paying $45 isn't lining the pockets of some government official, or plugging a hole in any possible budget. Dealing with the presence of travelers who haven't updated their driver's licenses requires a bunch of extra staff to perform the time-consuming additional verifications. The basic idea is for those staff to be paid by th…

Is this the case, I didn't see it in the article.

If they have to perform extra work then I'd say it's justified. If it's just a punishment for not getting a real ID I'm not sure if that's fair

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#328

Post by smelendez »

prashantsengar wrote: post #243
AngryData wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could ask the same serious question, why should I have to? There is zero reason to suspect me of being a suicidal maniac. Should we have such scanners to walk into a busy store or bus or subway system? Why don't private pilots and passengers have such screenings?

Tangential: Here in India we have security guards with hand-held metal detectors in malls, railway stations, and urban transit rails (metro) stations. The first time I visited a different country I was surprised to see my friend accompany me to the check-in counter and even further to drop me off. In India they wouldn't let you enter the airport if your flight doesn't depart soon enough.

It used to be normal in the U.S. to walk people to the gate until 9/11.

Now you can escort someone to the check-in counter and up to the security checkpoint, and meet people at the luggage area to help with bags.

But in practice it seems rare to do so if there isn’t a particular reason, probably because you’d have to pay to park or ride transit and it’s usually a trek beyond that. Honestly if they allowed you to go through security with the passenger and wait at the gate, I’m not sure how many people would even do it here (or how many passengers would want their loved ones to do so).

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#329

Post by mandeepj »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #211
mandeepj wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and laptops. It wasn't just pay for play! TSA-PreCheck and Global Entry approval requires a thorough background check of your residential, work, and travel history, also in-person interview. Unfortunately, some Privacy activists prefer not doing that over occasional convenience. https://www.goog…

Global Entry requires an in person interview, Precheck by itself does not

> Precheck by itself does not

Now! But, when it started it definitely required.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#330

Post by noduerme »

sargun wrote: post #263
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

What ethnicity are you? I went through an airport -- and nobody else got screened except me. What was special about me? I was the only non-white person in the airport. Upon complaining, this was the response: > Random selection by our screening technology prevents terrorists from attempting to defeat the security system by learning how it operates. Leaving out any one group, such as senior citizens, persons with disa…

It's screwed up that skin color is a marker that would lead an ignorant provincial quasi-cop to assume someone is of a particular ethnicity, and even more so that that ethnicity would lead them to believe an individual adheres to a belief system that might lead them to blow up an aircraft. Very poor set of assumptions and flawed tooling, to say the least.
Post reply on HN