You have the right to try and fly without an ID. The airlines also have the right to tell you to buzz off and get lost and the airport operator has the right to decide they don’t want you in the building and trespass you if you don’t scram.
The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could even double them up as government issued voter-ID and save all that hassle every 4 years. Or the current round of random stop-and-search going on...
And also provide an API for online services to use so we are not beholden to Alphabet and Apple. And while they’re at it, provide an electronic money account that allows for free and instant transfers. But then how would we waste so many societal resources letting investors profit from basic infrastructure?
I'm sure some young guns from a techbro company would love to dive into the data lake and make a proposal. They might need to take a few reels of tape away for offsite analysis, but don't worry..
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#13If true, unlikely to help the working poor flying (or attempting to fly) because recourse to courts here is in the realms of the rich or benificent. So, Frommers should fund a test case.
It’s annoying we don’t offer passport cards for free to people as a national government credential. The cost is similar to this fee, and your app and photo could be taken by TSA right at the checkpoint. You head to your flight after identity proofed, and your passport card could then be mailed to you. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-pa...
~~~While it's not a passport, I believe most states have free id cards that are "realid" compliant.~~~
Edit: I'm wrong.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#14I've flown without ID twice. Once because I lost my ID, once to prove to a friend that it could be done. This fee will fail for the same reason that flying without ID works at all - the law is quite clear on it.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could even double them up as government issued voter-ID and save all that hassle every 4 years. Or the current round of random stop-and-search going on...
And also provide an API for online services to use so we are not beholden to Alphabet and Apple. And while they’re at it, provide an electronic money account that allows for free and instant transfers. But then how would we waste so many societal resources letting investors profit from basic infrastructure?
> But then how would we waste so many societal resources letting investors profit from basic infrastructure?
That, and Millenarian Christians would object to its being a required "mark of the beast." That bit from Revelations has held us back for quite a while.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#16You have the right to try and fly without an ID. The airlines also have the right to tell you to buzz off and get lost and the airport operator has the right to decide they don’t want you in the building and trespass you if you don’t scram.
This isn’t like the 1st amendment.
Public carriers like airlines are not allowed to refuse service for the reason of refusing to show ID.
They can refuse for other reasons, but the are not “in the loop” when passengers currently get screened by the TSA, which is where RealID is “required”.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#17It's an interesting argument. Is there a highly-credible, authoritative source? Maybe someone like the EFF or ACLU? There are lots of ideas online about the law, of varying credibility, and I'd hesitate to risk a lawsuit over Internet advice.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s annoying we don’t offer passport cards for free to people as a national government credential. The cost is similar to this fee, and your app and photo could be taken by TSA right at the checkpoint. You head to your flight after identity proofed, and your passport card could then be mailed to you. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-pa...
~~~While it's not a passport, I believe most states have free id cards that are "realid" compliant.~~~ Edit: I'm wrong.
> I believe most states have free id cards that are "realid" compliant.
None in the mid-Atlantic or SE that I've seen. Some states offer free gov docs under limited programs, eg:unaccompanied homeless youth.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#19I've flown without ID twice. Once because I lost my ID, once to prove to a friend that it could be done. This fee will fail for the same reason that flying without ID works at all - the law is quite clear on it.
Did you have to show the airline your ID when checking in?
As far as I can tell, the TSA is one thing, while airline policy is another.
The law says it’s not required for security, but airlines might be justified in carrying out their own policies? Honestly curious.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s annoying we don’t offer passport cards for free to people as a national government credential. The cost is similar to this fee, and your app and photo could be taken by TSA right at the checkpoint. You head to your flight after identity proofed, and your passport card could then be mailed to you. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-pa...
You could even double them up as government issued voter-ID and save all that hassle every 4 years. Or the current round of random stop-and-search going on...
The people eligible for passports are not the same group of people eligible for voter id since there are a few jurisdictions where non-citizens can vote in certain elections. Voting is also a responsibility of the states (even at the federal level), so there isn't really such thing as a federal voter id since each state has different eligibility requirements for voters that don't necessarily align with passport eligibility. Additionally, passport cards aren't interchangeable with passports in most countries.
Also, every four years? Elections happen more or less constantly in this country at some level or another. Federal elections are every two years, BTW, and that's if we ignore special elections for federal candidates. You should learn more about the system you live in.
The current round of stop-and-search would be enabled by making passport cards or some form of universal id. The current legal reality is that you do not need to prove your citizenship on demand if you are already in the US as a citizen. The burden of proof - rightly in my opinion - lies with the government to prove that you are not a citizen. Frankly, I'm quite uncomfortable with "paper's please" entering the US law enforcement repertoire. The fourth amendment was pretty clear about this.
With the CBP using mere presence validated by facial id only at legally protected protests as reason to withdraw Global Entry enrollment, it seems more and more clear that we do not need to be giving more power to the people who do not understand the 4th and first amendments. Removing people from Global Entry for protected first speech is, afaict, directly in violation of the first amendment even if Global Entry is a "privilege"