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L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

bbc.co.uk

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Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#71

Post by andrewcooke »

objclxt wrote: post #68
rmc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy is an absolutely corrupt shit hole. I remember a scene where they showed recordings of civil protection officials gloating about the disaster on the phone, right after it happened. They talked about the opportunity to make money Just as another data point, lots of countries have corrupt and self-centred politicians. A spin doctor the UK government, on September 11th 2001, between when the towers were hit and wh…

That's a little different. What you're talking about is burying bad news, which is indeed standard political practice. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. What it's not is corruption, which is what the OP is talking about. For what it's worth, I would say Italy does have a perception of being more corrupt than its fellow European counterparts. This may or may not be true - it's obviously a little difficult to o…

chile should be so fucking proud of that map.

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#72

Post by tisme »

corin_ wrote: post #56
lbolla wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is bullshit, let me tell you. Corruption is everywhere in Italy: North AND South. Public sector AND Private sector. I am Italian, from the North, I lived in Milan for years and I am married with a woman from Rome: I know what I'm saying...

Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, as I have no idea about this, but I'm not sure being Italian is evidence that you are an expert on Italian corruption...

Chances of an Italian being an expert on Italian corruption far outweigh the chances of other nationalities being experts on that subject.

So even if it isn't ironclad evidence it definitely moves the posterior probability towards 'expert'.

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#73

Post by Anon84 »

kitsune_ wrote: post #4

I can wholeheartedly recommend a documentary called Draquila – L'Italia che trema [1] about the L'Aquila earthquake. As many of my Italian friends tell me, Italy is an absolutely corrupt shit hole. I remember a scene where they showed recordings of civil protection officials gloating about the disaster on the phone, right after it happened. They talked about the opportunity to make money [2]. The head of the national…

The italians on HN might find this interesting: http://evasori.info/ it aims to crowd source tax evasion in Italy.

Their mobile app has recently won an award: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=...

(Disclaimer: I've worked directly with several of the people involved.)

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#74

Post by HerrMonnezza »

A blog post [0] about a month ago explains better why they are on trial:

  The prosecution’s closing arguments [...] made it clear that
  the scientists are not accused of failing to predict the
  earthquake. “Even six-year old kids know that earthquakes can not be
  predicted,” he said. “The goal of the meeting was very different:
  the scientists were supposed to evaluate whether the seismic
  sequence could be considered a precursor event, to assess what
  damages had already happened at that point, to discuss how to
  mitigate risks.” Picuti said the panel members did not fulfill these
  commitments, and that their risk analysis was “flawed, inadequate,
  negligent and deceptive”, resulting in wrong information being given
  to citizens.
[0]: http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/09/porsecution-asks-for-fo...

So the whole thing looks more subtle (and sensible) than many news headlines report...

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#75

Post by rm999 »

HerrMonnezza wrote: post #74

A blog post [0] about a month ago explains better why they are on trial: The prosecution’s closing arguments [...] made it clear that the scientists are not accused of failing to predict the earthquake. “Even six-year old kids know that earthquakes can not be predicted,” he said. “The goal of the meeting was very different: the scientists were supposed to evaluate whether the seismic sequence could be considered a pr…

Interesting. As I would expect, seismologists unrelated to the case disagree with the ruling:

>"It's too easy to predict an earthquake after the fact and say everyone should have cleared out, but beforehand people, for good reason, thought the risk was low," said John Vidale, a University of Washington seismologist. In fact, Vidale said, the scientists' statements that the quake was unlikely were true. "There was a very small chance of that earthquake," Vidale told LiveScience. "It didn't make sense for people to evacuate."

http://www.livescience.com/24173-laquila-earthquake-manslaug...

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#76

Post by ninguem2 »

Anon84 wrote: post #73
kitsune_ wrote: post #4

I can wholeheartedly recommend a documentary called Draquila – L'Italia che trema [1] about the L'Aquila earthquake. As many of my Italian friends tell me, Italy is an absolutely corrupt shit hole. I remember a scene where they showed recordings of civil protection officials gloating about the disaster on the phone, right after it happened. They talked about the opportunity to make money [2]. The head of the national…

The italians on HN might find this interesting: http://evasori.info/ it aims to crowd source tax evasion in Italy. Their mobile app has recently won an award: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=... (Disclaimer: I've worked directly with several of the people involved.)

I gather from the website that this app is trying to discourage tax evasion by exposing evaders. Your sentence "it aims to crowd source tax evasion in Italy" gives the wrong impression.

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#77

Post by monochromatic »

HerrMonnezza wrote: post #74

A blog post [0] about a month ago explains better why they are on trial: The prosecution’s closing arguments [...] made it clear that the scientists are not accused of failing to predict the earthquake. “Even six-year old kids know that earthquakes can not be predicted,” he said. “The goal of the meeting was very different: the scientists were supposed to evaluate whether the seismic sequence could be considered a pr…

> the whole thing looks more subtle (and sensible) than many news headlines report

This is so often the case...

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#79

Post by izietto »

jivatmanx wrote: post #20
kitsune_ wrote: post #4

I can wholeheartedly recommend a documentary called Draquila – L'Italia che trema [1] about the L'Aquila earthquake. As many of my Italian friends tell me, Italy is an absolutely corrupt shit hole. I remember a scene where they showed recordings of civil protection officials gloating about the disaster on the phone, right after it happened. They talked about the opportunity to make money [2]. The head of the national…

Not all of Italy, only the South. That's why the biggest party in the north is a secessionist party. A lot of cool stuff comes out of the North, like Arduino.

what "biggest party", the one which was allied with Berlusconi?
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