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Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

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Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#31

Post by reorder9695 »

hnburnsy wrote: post #12

Related, TIL the US is effectively banning residential electric resistance water heaters in 2029, with heat pump water heaters being the only type that can meet the new standards. Users will see a 2-3x in cost difference and a 3 to 8 year payback on savings.

I don't know about all heat pump systems, but mine at least requires the water tank to have a resistive immersion too. If the tank temperature gets below some threshold the heat pump refuses to work and turns the immersion on instead until it's warmed up enough.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#32

Post by aaaalone »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #15
hnburnsy wrote: post #12

Related, TIL the US is effectively banning residential electric resistance water heaters in 2029, with heat pump water heaters being the only type that can meet the new standards. Users will see a 2-3x in cost difference and a 3 to 8 year payback on savings.

Is that 2-3x before or after the plumber marks it up? What an exceptionally moronic thing to ban, the market solves this naturally. Resistance heaters are 100% efficient whatever fraction of the year is heating days. So if that's 1/2 the year and the water heater can't last 16yr because of water quality the heat pump heater will never pay you back. This reminds me a lot of the time some jerks in west coast desert sta…

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Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#33

Post by coffeebeqn »

syntaxing wrote: post #7

With the adoption of sodium batteries, I wouldn’t be surprised if solar panel + sodium battery would outperform this system by a lot.

There’s also solar thermal panels that heat up a liquid circulating in the system and cut out the need for a battery - and can just store the heated liquid.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#34

Post by DrScientist »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #30
chickenbig wrote: post #28

Perhaps I am missing something; this product already exists as the Sunamp Thermino. https://sunamp.com/en-gb/hot-water-solutions-thermino-range/

It also exists, as described in the headline, as a tank of heated water. The phase change stuff has positives like taking up less physical space but it's also a much less mature tech than storing hot water.

Indeed.

In the UK there was a unfortunate trend of ripping out these energy storage devices and replacing hot water tanks with on demand electric hot water heating ( only heat the water you need ). And new builds often have no tanks ( as it saves space in the new tiny homes ).

Very short sighted in my view - a very simple way to store energy and everyone uses hot water directly.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#35

Post by mrd999 »

hnburnsy wrote: post #23
DangitBobby wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably exactly what will happen. Energy property - Heat pumps and biomass stoves and boilers Heat pumps that meet or exceed the CEE highest efficiency tier, not including any advanced tier, in effect at the beginning of the year when the property is installed, and biomass stoves and boilers with a thermal efficiency rating of at least 75% qualify for a credit up to $2,000 per year. Costs may include labor fo…

These are credits that only work if you have owe federal taxes and they cannot be carried forward. I've seen estimates that 40-45% of taxpayers owe 0 or close to 0.

Eh? If you have income you owe taxes, Uncle Sam just takes it before you even see it

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#36

Post by metalman »

the idea is theoreticaly good, but as it depends on sealing incompatable materials apart, there will be problems, and issues with disposing of failed units.Dry sand works as thermal storage without any issues, and only needs more space, competition will be stiff.Water also works, and ordinary off the floor systems can be used with no modifications. The only advantage the system will have is in places where space constraints combine with the desire for fancy solutions and ecobabble.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#37

Post by direwolf20 »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #15
hnburnsy wrote: post #12

Related, TIL the US is effectively banning residential electric resistance water heaters in 2029, with heat pump water heaters being the only type that can meet the new standards. Users will see a 2-3x in cost difference and a 3 to 8 year payback on savings.

Is that 2-3x before or after the plumber marks it up? What an exceptionally moronic thing to ban, the market solves this naturally. Resistance heaters are 100% efficient whatever fraction of the year is heating days. So if that's 1/2 the year and the water heater can't last 16yr because of water quality the heat pump heater will never pay you back. This reminds me a lot of the time some jerks in west coast desert sta…

Is the heat pump heater taking heat from inside or outside the house?

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#38

Post by direwolf20 »

mrd999 wrote: post #35
hnburnsy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are credits that only work if you have owe federal taxes and they cannot be carried forward. I've seen estimates that 40-45% of taxpayers owe 0 or close to 0.

Eh? If you have income you owe taxes, Uncle Sam just takes it before you even see it

Federal taxes specifically.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#39

Post by direwolf20 »

hedora wrote: post #10

I wonder if this can store any heat or just heat pump heat. If it can store any heat, it would help a lot to further reduce heating costs in our modern energy efficient house. Sometimes, in the winter, we get too much solar forcing, so if we don’t heat all, it can be 85F in the day in the house, but 60-65 at night. (We open the windows during the day, and don’t always close them at exactly the right time at night.)

Heat pump heat is just heat.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#40

Post by lm28469 »

hnburnsy wrote: post #22
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that 2-3x before or after the plumber marks it up? What an exceptionally moronic thing to ban, the market solves this naturally. Resistance heaters are 100% efficient whatever fraction of the year is heating days. So if that's 1/2 the year and the water heater can't last 16yr because of water quality the heat pump heater will never pay you back. This reminds me a lot of the time some jerks in west coast desert sta…

Heat pump water heater (hybrid/HPWH, e.g., 50–65 gallon equivalent): Unit prices range from ~$1,500–$3,000+ (most common models $2,000–$2,500), with total installed costs $2,500–$5,000 (higher if electrical upgrades or space mods needed). Average retrofit/install often lands around $3,000–$4,000.

And for small households they virtually never pay for themselves before they die or need expensive maintenance... It only makes sense if you use a lot of water or if your electricity is very expensive. In my case it's even worse, with solar panels and self sufficiency they literally cannot break even
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