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L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

bbc.co.uk

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Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#51

Post by engtech »

engtech wrote: post #12
mturmon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a story with a good background on the events. It's more complex than you would guess: http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100622/full/465992a.html In particular, at least one member of the civil defense bureaucracy went out of his way to say there was a consensus that there was no danger (even though there was not such a strong consensus): "Immediately after that meeting, De Bernardinis and Barberi, acting presid…

Does anyone understand the title of Nature article? "Italy puts seismology in the dock" ? is it meant to be "in the dark" ?

Thank you for the clarification, guys. I hadn't realized Nature was British/UK.

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#52

Post by run4yourlives »

Sweet. Now I can sue the weatherman the next time I get caught in the rain.

Personally, I'm not surprised at this stupidity. I also won't be surprised if from now on every single report offered suggests that an earthquake will occur tomorrow, making the entire exercise meaningless and probably costing lives in the future.

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#53

Post by purephase »

While I have to believe that this will die through appeals, the long-term implications are enormous.

As nxswolf points out, it not only will scare off future scientists interested in working in Italy, but any official/expert tasked with preventing tragedies.

The fallout is that, with each possibility, worst-case scenarios will be the norm to avoid culpability over reasoned approach. Not to say that worst-case should not be considered, but dialling up to 11 is never an appropriate public response.

Finally, today it is seismologists, tomorrow it could easily be network security folks, application engineers, CTO/CSO's etc. Basically, any situation where the sum-total parts are so large and multi-faceted that no one person/agency could be seen as the expert.

Terrible tragedy, terrible fallout. The optimist in me hopes that this is dropped at the next appeal.

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#55

Post by mfbadr »

jivatmanx wrote: post #20
kitsune_ wrote: post #4

I can wholeheartedly recommend a documentary called Draquila – L'Italia che trema [1] about the L'Aquila earthquake. As many of my Italian friends tell me, Italy is an absolutely corrupt shit hole. I remember a scene where they showed recordings of civil protection officials gloating about the disaster on the phone, right after it happened. They talked about the opportunity to make money [2]. The head of the national…

Not all of Italy, only the South. That's why the biggest party in the north is a secessionist party. A lot of cool stuff comes out of the North, like Arduino.

If we're talking like that, doesn't south Italy get Redis?

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#56

Post by corin_ »

lbolla wrote: post #26
jivatmanx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all of Italy, only the South. That's why the biggest party in the north is a secessionist party. A lot of cool stuff comes out of the North, like Arduino.

This is bullshit, let me tell you. Corruption is everywhere in Italy: North AND South. Public sector AND Private sector. I am Italian, from the North, I lived in Milan for years and I am married with a woman from Rome: I know what I'm saying...

Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, as I have no idea about this, but I'm not sure being Italian is evidence that you are an expert on Italian corruption...

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#57

Post by riffraff »

jivatmanx wrote: post #20
kitsune_ wrote: post #4

I can wholeheartedly recommend a documentary called Draquila – L'Italia che trema [1] about the L'Aquila earthquake. As many of my Italian friends tell me, Italy is an absolutely corrupt shit hole. I remember a scene where they showed recordings of civil protection officials gloating about the disaster on the phone, right after it happened. They talked about the opportunity to make money [2]. The head of the national…

Not all of Italy, only the South. That's why the biggest party in the north is a secessionist party. A lot of cool stuff comes out of the North, like Arduino.

for the record: the last major of milan was, for lack of better word, "impeached" after it was found out her son had built an abusive "batcave".

The current governor of lombardia and the whole council is in a corruption and vote marketing scandal.

The head of the secessionist party for the last twenty years left his role after it was found out he and his son had been using the party as a revolver bank account.

And, noticeably, the Dear Leader Silvio Berlusconi is from milan.

There is a lot to say on the north vs south in italy, but saying "northern italy is not corrupted" is as silly as it gets.

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#58

Post by conradfr »

jivatmanx wrote: post #20
kitsune_ wrote: post #4

I can wholeheartedly recommend a documentary called Draquila – L'Italia che trema [1] about the L'Aquila earthquake. As many of my Italian friends tell me, Italy is an absolutely corrupt shit hole. I remember a scene where they showed recordings of civil protection officials gloating about the disaster on the phone, right after it happened. They talked about the opportunity to make money [2]. The head of the national…

Not all of Italy, only the South. That's why the biggest party in the north is a secessionist party. A lot of cool stuff comes out of the North, like Arduino.

Isn't Berlusconi from Milan ?

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#59

Post by conradfr »

run4yourlives wrote: post #52

Sweet. Now I can sue the weatherman the next time I get caught in the rain. Personally, I'm not surprised at this stupidity. I also won't be surprised if from now on every single report offered suggests that an earthquake will occur tomorrow, making the entire exercise meaningless and probably costing lives in the future.

It happened two times against "Météo France" (French national meteorological service) by an insurance company in 1996 and winegrowers / farmers in 1999 but it has been dismissed in each cases.

Re: L'Aquila quake: Italy scientists found guilty of manslaughter

#60

Post by ecliptic »

patio11 wrote: post #23

This is crazy, but I'll note that it isn't a peculiarly Italian form of crazy. People rush to find scapegoats after every disaster. In the future, consider being as skeptical of those accusations as you were when people accused folks you identify with, like scientists.

>People rush to find scapegoats after every disaster

They have had ample time regain their composure, this happened in 2009.

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