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Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

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Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#231

Post by dyauspitr »

pibaker wrote: post #229
dyauspitr wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These ID verification laws aren't simply designed to confirm that someone has access to an >= 18yo ID. They are identity verification to try to confirm that the person presenting the ID is the same person who is using the site. This makes no sense. This is exactly like asking someone older to buy you beer. Will there be rule breakers? Sure but they will be in the overwhelming minority.

In other words, total death of anonymity on the internet. Don't you love having your government name tied to every single word you say online, forever, potentially publicly accessible if someone configured mongodb wrong?

Different token every time. If something leaks then only the private tokens are leaked. You then have to break every site you visited to link them to you individually.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#233

Post by testing22321 »

philipallstar wrote: post #125
tgv wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an alternative: prohibit smart phones for youth. They can possess simple phones.

Parents can just do this. It's far more expensive to not do it.

When all the kids in school have a smart phone it’s extremely hard to be the one kid and parents that don’t.

So, so much easier and more effective if they’re just banned for all kids.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#234

Post by donatj »

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wrote: post #222
donatj wrote: post #220

Do people under the age of sixty even use traditional social media anymore? Do we have actual stats? I am in my late thirties so surely out of touch, but am friends with people in their mid twenties and frankly I don't know anyone who spends any significant time on anything other than TikTok. I guess you could call TikTok "social media", but it wouldn't fit my old person definition. I think pretty much everyone below…

>I think pretty much everyone below the age of 60 is aware that Facebook/Instagram/etc is just slop now. Sorry, but to me you just revealed you don't speak to many women.

I'm married with children, work from home, and weeks away from my 40s. So yes. Not a big revelation.

I have more than a couple nieces and nephews in their late teens/early 20s though and if you ask them, social media is for old people.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#235

Post by refulgentis »

figassis wrote: post #225
andix wrote: post #98

Modern social media is nothing like social media in early days (myspace, early Facebook and even early Instagram). Back then it was a platform to communicate with friends, and maybe even find new friends to meet up with. Today social media is more like a drug, to keep the user engaged and to push content to them. The content must either be addictive/engaging or paid advertisements. Quality of the content doesn't matt…

When did this start? IMHO it started with instagram. I remember back then there were multiple retro photo apps, insta was one of them, I had several on my phone and kept playing around with them (at the time apps felt like Christmas presents, each update exploring a device feature in creative ways). I don't quite remember, but I don't think it was a social network then, I think you posted the photos in other networks…

Really good question...TL;DR: I'd put it around when Mark Z decided Instagram also had to be Snapchat. (copied Stories) It normalized a behavior of copying.

I had gotten completely out of these apps, then ended up in a situation where I needed to use Snapchat daily if not hourly for messaging, and needed to use TikTok to be culturally literate. (i.e. I got into something romantic with someone younger).

It was a stunning experience. Seeing _everyone_ had normalized this "copy our competitor" strat, hill-climbing on duration of engagement.

YouTube Shorts is a crappy copy of TikTok with mostly TikTok reposts and no sense of community.

Snapchat has a poor clone of TikTok that I doubt anyone knows exists.

TikTok is the ur-engagement king. Pure dopamine, just keep swiping until something catches your attention, and swipe as soon as it stops. No meaningful 1:1 communicating aspect (there's messages, but AFAICT from light quizzing of Gen Zers, it's not used for actual communication)

Instagram specifically is hard for me to speak to, because Gen Zers seem to think its roughly as cool as Facebook, but my understanding is millennials my age or younger (I'm 37) use it more regularly, whereas Gen Z uses it more as like we'd think of Facebook, a generic safe place where grandma can see your graduation photos, as opposed to spontaneous thirst traps.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#236

Post by alkonaut »

tzs wrote: post #209
alkonaut wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying it would be impossible to have a service where the site (social media, say) would issue some sort of random token and ask me to sign it using a centralized ID service. Then I log in to the centralized id service and use it to sign the random token and bring it back to the service. The centralized service see who I am, but not what I'm proving my age for. The social media or other site see that I have s…

The problem with that is if someone gets a hold of the logs from both the centralized service and the social media site they can compare timestamps and may be able to match them up. Most people will be doing the whole process (site gives token, person gets token signed, person returns token) as quickly as possible which limits the candidates for a match. Worse, if the central service is compromised and wants to make…

Yes, timestamp comparison will be possible. I don't think there is a reasonable way around it? And authentication on to someone else is also unavoidable with reasonable privacy. I think a system with both of those drawbacks is still preferable to most other options.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#237

Post by testing22321 »

m132 wrote: post #178

Open Internet dying in front of our very eyes. Let's not forget that social media are just one of the many scapegoats tried over the past decade in hopes of pushing this idea forwards. And while there's no denying that today's social media have gotten destructive, they're still only a scapegoat; no attempt is being made here to bring them back to their original, non-malicious shape. Is the social media hate really so…

Has anyone ever argued that children should have full access to the entire internet?

Seems like a horribly bad idea.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#238

Post by expedition32 »

philipallstar wrote: post #128
echelon wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

110%. No website of any kind should require IDV unless banking. It is a tool that will be used for censorship, removal of access to information, destruction of freedom of speech, erosion of privacy, and attacks on political opponents. We need anonymity, ephemerality, and public square free speech. Governments should instead regulate what these companies can do. How they advertise. Engagement algorithms. Stop internal…

Parents should instead regulate what their kids can do.

It's the job of society to help parents otherwise the birth rate will just continue to decline.

Remember that for the first time in history people can choose not to have kids.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#239

Post by pembrook »

zhug3 wrote: post #28

The phrase "uncontrolled human experiment" is doing interesting rhetorical work here. It frames the status quo as the experiment and regulation as the control—when historically it's been the reverse.

The fact that you're the only one calling this out is quite frankly alarming.

It's one of the most authoritarian statements I've ever heard from a western government. And just because its the trendy moral panic of the day, everybody is cheering it on.

Anything where we allow people free will is by definition an "uncontrolled human experiment" and the basis of any free society.

Should we also end the "uncontrolled human experiment" of allowing people to have private money and make their own purchase decisions? Should we end the "uncontrolled human experiment" of allowing people to select their own romantic partners?

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#240

Post by FeteCommuniste »

holly01 wrote: post #230
FeteCommuniste wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: a voting system (and generally any move toward ranking content rather than displaying it chronologically) will inevitably rot any social media platform. Just a question of time.

When I used 4chan the lack of voting made engaging with the actual substance of a post much easier. This was something observed by many other posters I talked to. This is going to sound wishy-washy, but my theory is that the brain is so attuned to socially trying to figure out the in-group or who is in the wrong that putting a number that signals social agreement on a statement will immediately stimulate the more pri…

In the first decade of the 2000s my only "social" platforms were traditional (chronological) forums and the average level of discussion and effort to contribute was way higher than what I usually see now on social media.
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