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Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

yle.fi

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Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#191

Post by tzs »

Mindwipe wrote: post #20
alkonaut wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any kind of zero knowledge verification should be ok. But with minors it often goes a long way to just make the law. It’s a good instruction to parents who should be able to control this. Laws on bike helmets for minors are followed nearly 100% not because they are enforced by authorities but because the law gives parents guidance.

There is no such thing in practice. Anything with zero knowledge is never going to be considered robust enough by a government. Zero knowledge protocols really have no functional revocation mechanism.

The EU has been working on a zero knowledge system as part of the EU Digital Identity Wallet project for a few years now. It is currently undergoing large scale field tests in several countries with expected release late this year. All member states are required to provide at least one free secure interoperable implementation to their citizens, and regulated industries such as banks and telecoms, are required to accept it. If a member state passes a law requiring age verification on social media it must include the EU Digital Identity Wallet as one of the verification methods the site must support.

What was that about no government would consider zero knowledge to be robust enough?

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#192

Post by baq »

whatever1 wrote: post #132
john01dav wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is plenty addictive in my experience, and I've heard the same from other people ranging from high school teachers to tradespeople.

Hackernews is also addictive. Fortnine is addictive. World of Warcraft is addictive. NFL is addictive. Addiction does not strike to me as a unique trait of the social media. The echo chamber bubble on the other hand, seems quite unique.

HN doesn’t optimize for addictive. Fortnite and wow do. No opinion on NFL, but they probably do at least somewhat.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#193

Post by oliwarner »

cheeseface wrote: post #118
andix wrote: post #98

Modern social media is nothing like social media in early days (myspace, early Facebook and even early Instagram). Back then it was a platform to communicate with friends, and maybe even find new friends to meet up with. Today social media is more like a drug, to keep the user engaged and to push content to them. The content must either be addictive/engaging or paid advertisements. Quality of the content doesn't matt…

Agree on how the platform’s have changed. However, I don’t think Reddit is an exception. Popular is often filled with content that is driven by the feelings of fear and hate. Not something I’d like to continually expose kids or teens to.

I use old.reddit.com but I feel like I have complete control over what I see. It's new posts, I check them and then I leave.

That's what I've lost on Facebook. It forces me to see things its algorithm thinks I like, but more often than not, it's things that make me want to argue. I don't have that on Reddit. Long may it last.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#194

Post by cal_dent »

It's all picking up steam. The thing is whatever the implementation may be, the writing is on the wall that social media's are numbered, well at least its in current form.

I.m sure there'll be downsides to this but, have to say, I'm happy the de facto position that social media's should be allowed to be the wild west is now seriously being questioned

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#195

Post by baq »

tedmiston wrote: post #126
john01dav wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is plenty addictive in my experience, and I've heard the same from other people ranging from high school teachers to tradespeople.

i think most users need more screen blocking control than they get out of the box on iOS. tools like one sec [1] have been invaluable for me. [1]: https://one-sec.app/

Yes, but most importantly I need to manage my children’s devices; it cannot be opt in and it mustn’t be possible to disable without me approving. Screen time is too easy for kids to work around as is. I also need in-app content type filtering (eg. no shorts, no music videos on music streaming apps) and literally no one is providing such options, not to mention it should be managed in screen time, too. Parental controls are a complete shit show in iOS and the app ecosystem.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#196

Post by logicchains »

SkipperCat wrote: post #107
logicchains wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are downvoted, but you are totally right. Humans are not meant to cry daily over stuff that happens half a world away You mean humans are not meant to learn about the atrocities their government is funding half a world away.

Social media is not designed to keep you informed. Its designed to keep you engaged because that helps them sell ads. And the best way to keep you engaged is to keep you enraged. I've seen in the US how social media has been used push false narratives, hate and other falsehoods. Its toxic. If you really want to stay informed, there are plenty of newspapers, NGOs and other organizations out there reporting the truth.

>I've seen in the US how social media has been used push false narratives, hate and other falsehoods. Its toxic.

And for decades before that mainstream media was used to push false narratives with absolutely no alternatives. Or have you forgotten about the Iraq War?

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#197

Post by UltraSane »

andix wrote: post #98

Modern social media is nothing like social media in early days (myspace, early Facebook and even early Instagram). Back then it was a platform to communicate with friends, and maybe even find new friends to meet up with. Today social media is more like a drug, to keep the user engaged and to push content to them. The content must either be addictive/engaging or paid advertisements. Quality of the content doesn't matt…

I've noticed comments on YouTube videos about politically controversial things in the US show incredibly obvious bot activity.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#198

Post by carlosjobim »

whatever1 wrote: post #132
john01dav wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is plenty addictive in my experience, and I've heard the same from other people ranging from high school teachers to tradespeople.

Hackernews is also addictive. Fortnine is addictive. World of Warcraft is addictive. NFL is addictive. Addiction does not strike to me as a unique trait of the social media. The echo chamber bubble on the other hand, seems quite unique.

> The echo chamber bubble on the other hand, seems quite unique.

At least you can now choose your bubble and even listen to your own echo. That beats having the government beam their psychosis straight into everybody's brain by TV, radio and newspapers.

That makes the whole society an "echo chamber" of whatever the rulers have on their current agenda. And not just on your devices, but all the people you meet in real life.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#199

Post by UltraSane »

cheeseface wrote: post #118
andix wrote: post #98

Modern social media is nothing like social media in early days (myspace, early Facebook and even early Instagram). Back then it was a platform to communicate with friends, and maybe even find new friends to meet up with. Today social media is more like a drug, to keep the user engaged and to push content to them. The content must either be addictive/engaging or paid advertisements. Quality of the content doesn't matt…

Agree on how the platform’s have changed. However, I don’t think Reddit is an exception. Popular is often filled with content that is driven by the feelings of fear and hate. Not something I’d like to continually expose kids or teens to.

I've been on reddit long enough to get sick of the constant reposts. They really should have a filter for that.

Re: Finland looks to introduce Australia-style ban on social media

#200

Post by tzs »

Aurornis wrote: post #177
k__ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Zero knowledge proof and you're good to go.

That's not how ID checking works, though. A key part of ID verification laws is that you're confirming the ID presented also belongs to the user. They can't just check for "This person currently has an adult ID in their possession" and nothing more, otherwise one kid at school would borrow their older brothers' ID and then use it to register all of their friends' accounts one day.

You tie it cryptographically to their phone with keys in the phone's hardware security module. This doesn't stop sharing of ID but it makes it much more inconvenient.
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