Mobile carriers can get your GPS location • Hacker News Board

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#121

Post by jeroenhd » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:32 PM UTC

AlexanderYamanu wrote: post #41

euhm, well. 112 programmer here. There are multiple levels. Cell tower triangulation come in automatically from providers. But they are only in tower numbers. They might be wrongly entered by engineers, hence the confirming question about where you are. Second is subscription information, as in registered address. Chances are if called from nearby your address, you are at your address. Next is a text to your phone nu…

American carriers have a different protocol than the EU. The EU (and probably EU derived networks) uses a """secret""" SMS format that's opt-in, but the 911 system works differently.

The 911 feature can be activated fully remotely, the 112 feature is supposed to only activate when dialing an emergency number.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#122

Post by iamnothere » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:34 PM UTC

spwa4 wrote: post #117

nichos wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would ask for your source

How that works is simple: there are regulations that force that the microphone used for calling is directly connected to the "baseband", which is under control of the carrier. It has to be, because of AT&T's argument: ONE misbehaving baseband can make cell phones inoperable in an area that's up to a kilometer in diameter. So AT&T's cell towers "need" to be able to send out a signal that permanently disables a phone's…

> Regulations say the baseband MUST control: all wireless signals (including wifi and GPS), all microphones and speakers, and it must be able to disable the camera electrically. It must have a tamper-resistant identifier (IMEI number ... kind of).

This is simply not true.

Source: I own a phone where this is not the case. Many Linux phones internally attach their wireless devices via USB, so there is good separation.

Also many upscale phones have decoupled the baseband from things that were once connected to it, as an attempt to improve security. (On iOS for instance the main CPU controls wifi.)

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#123

Post by connorgurney » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:34 PM UTC

wisplike wrote: post #104

Anyone know why apple specifies this feature requires a supported carrier? Why would the carrier matter?

I’d imagine that the carrier will agree not to use any data they do receive for anything but a handful of purposes, but I suppose that depends on the extent of the technical solution.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#124

Post by AstroNutt » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:36 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #70

metaphor wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think cell tower triangulation is the only data point being exploited to minimize position error?

I've wondered if they can also find you by what wifi or Bluetooth devices are around. Odds are one or more humans nearby has their GPS on. Your device can snitch on what's around or those other devices snitch on you.

I've thought that too... especially Bluetooth. I know it's possible with Wi-Fi signal strength.

Is it a coincidence most smartphone manufacturers were suddenly all on board with removing the 3.5mm jack and forced Bluetooth? A mesh network of sorts like Amazon is doing with Ring. I even sometimes forget to save my battery and turn Bluetooth off when I'm not using my earbuds. It's probably a false sense of security having it disabled because I'm sure it's doing something in the background anyways. I can't say for sure though. Kind of like years ago with Google getting caught with the whole location data thing. I'm sure the average Joe doesn't care if Bluetooth is enabled 24/7.

I try and not be on the tin foil bandwagon, but every once and a while I come across things that make you go hmmm...

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#125

Post by CamperBob2 » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:36 PM UTC

spwa4 wrote: post #117

nichos wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would ask for your source

How that works is simple: there are regulations that force that the microphone used for calling is directly connected to the "baseband", which is under control of the carrier. It has to be, because of AT&T's argument: ONE misbehaving baseband can make cell phones inoperable in an area that's up to a kilometer in diameter. So AT&T's cell towers "need" to be able to send out a signal that permanently disables a phone's…

That's a homework assignment, not a citation.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#126

Post by jeroenhd » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:36 PM UTC

IshKebab wrote: post #64

AlexanderYamanu wrote: post #41

euhm, well. 112 programmer here. There are multiple levels. Cell tower triangulation come in automatically from providers. But they are only in tower numbers. They might be wrongly entered by engineers, hence the confirming question about where you are. Second is subscription information, as in registered address. Chances are if called from nearby your address, you are at your address. Next is a text to your phone nu…

> This can be turned off, since implementation. Not by users. The new thing is that Apple allows users to disable this feature. Hopefully they still detect emergency calls on the phone and enable it unconditionally for those.

I believe they're talking about this feature (https://support.google.com/android/answer/9319337?sjid=18079...).

This is a system you can disable as a user, but it's not the on-modem feature discussed in the article.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#127

Post by socalgal2 » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:40 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #99

peyton wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not vote for some law limiting the government’s buying of this data? After all, I expect a say in how the government is run, so that seems like the appropriate path. I don’t see why I should expect a say in how AT&T is run. AT&T can’t raise an army, or enter my house, or shoot me.

How exactly do I vote for such a law? We do not have a direct democracy, and I'm not aware of any viable political candidates that have this sort of thing as a part of their platform.

In some states you do.

https://ballotpedia.org/States_with_initiative_or_referendum

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#128

Post by jeroenhd » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:41 PM UTC

anonymousiam wrote: post #36

michaelt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely that only happens when the phone user dials 911 ?

The cell network routinely does TDoA triangulation in order to help choose which tower should serve the client mobile device. Accuracy is about 20m, and may be better at 5G frequencies. 911 gets the location from the mobile network provider, but the network provider could provide it to anyone, and they do. Tons of "free" and crapware apps are also recording location, and sending it to data brokers. https://www.wired.…

Using LTE Timing Advance feature, especially on 5G, accuracy can be much higher.

https://5g-tools.com/5g-nr-timing-advance-ta-distance-calcul... shows an example of the parameters necessary. I don't think you can get your smartphone to dump those stats for you, but the granularity of the individual distance measurement is in the tens of centimeters.

Of course this strongly depends on cell infrastructure being placed precisely, continuously updating correction factors, and a bunch of antennae being around the target to get measurements for, but in most cities that isn't much of a challenge if the operator is working together with whoever wants to spy on citizens.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#129

Post by rockskon » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:43 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #109

salawat wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your cell phone provider does not constitute "drinking buddy". The fact that, in essence, everyone is being surveilled location wise all the time by these providers is reason enough to restrict the activity.

>Your cell phone provider does not constitute "drinking buddy". You're right, it should be even more scandalous for the government to get information out of my drinking buddy, because the information I told him was in confidence, and he promised he wouldn't tell anyone. My cell phone provider, on the other hand, clearly says in their ToS who they'll share data with and in what circumstances.

A non-exhaustive list that has, time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again, to downplay the grossly cavalier approach they take to the "privacy" of your location data.

They value it alright. At several dollars per person.

Re: Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

#130

Post by mlfreeman » Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 7:49 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #109

salawat wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your cell phone provider does not constitute "drinking buddy". The fact that, in essence, everyone is being surveilled location wise all the time by these providers is reason enough to restrict the activity.

>Your cell phone provider does not constitute "drinking buddy". You're right, it should be even more scandalous for the government to get information out of my drinking buddy, because the information I told him was in confidence, and he promised he wouldn't tell anyone. My cell phone provider, on the other hand, clearly says in their ToS who they'll share data with and in what circumstances.

And the ToS probably has a clause that says "we can alter the deal any time we want and you should pray we don't alter it further".