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Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

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Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#31

Post by MattGaiser »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29
HeavyStorm wrote: post #17

This ship has sailed. It's how it was with the internet. I grew up in the 90s, and teacher didn't know how to deal with the fact we no longer had to go through multiple books in the library to get the information they needed. We barely needed to write it. Now nobody expects students to not use the internet. Same here: teachers must accept that AI can and will write papers and answer questions / do homework. How you t…

I remember when websites couldn’t be considered valid sources for graded assignments

I was dealing with this even in 2014 when I was in high school. Even then, entire classes of government data weren’t published in some print volume.

Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#32

Post by MattGaiser »

mc32 wrote: post #23

I get that students are using the LLM crutch -and who wouldn’t? What I don’t get is why wouldn’t they act like an editor and add their own voice to the writing. The heavy lifting was done now you just have to polish it by hand. Is that too hard to do?

It would be dull to do. Being a tone scribe would be terrible.

Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#33

Post by AndrewKemendo »

MattGaiser wrote: post #31
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when websites couldn’t be considered valid sources for graded assignments

I was dealing with this even in 2014 when I was in high school. Even then, entire classes of government data weren’t published in some print volume.

In my case at least there was some validity to it in 1995

Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#34

Post by threemux »

In person, proctored blue book exams are back! Sharpen those pencils kids.

I've been wondering lately if one of the good things to come out of heavy LLM use will be a return to mostly in-person interactions once nothing that happens online is trustworthy anymore.

Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#35

Post by jxf »

idiotsecant wrote: post #22
xeromal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of teachers are reverting back to handwritten papers. People can generate it but at least you're doing something.

This is just about the worst possible response it seems. It manages to probably hurt some wrists not used to long handwriting sessions, completely avoid learning how to use and attribute AI responsibly, and still probably just results in kids handwriting AI generated slop, anyway.

We've been writing with our hands for thousands of years. I suspect that on balance a Butlerian Jihad against AI slop would be perfectly fine for our hands.

Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#36

Post by kyykky »

zkmon wrote: post #24

Teachers are also heavy users of AI. Entire academic business staff is using AI. The goals of academic assessment need to change. What are they assessing and why? Knowledge retention skills? Knowledge correlations or knowledge expression skills? None of these going to be useful or required from humans. Just like the school kids are now allowed to use calculators in the exam halls. The academic industry need to redefi…

Teaching is about moving our knowledge (the stuff we’ve collectively learned ourselves, from others and our parents [instead of everyone needing to find out on their own]) to the next generation. While some skills may become obsolete in some parts of professional life due to AI, the purpose of academia does not change much.

Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#37

Post by croes »

smoyer wrote: post #26
HeavyStorm wrote: post #17

This ship has sailed. It's how it was with the internet. I grew up in the 90s, and teacher didn't know how to deal with the fact we no longer had to go through multiple books in the library to get the information they needed. We barely needed to write it. Now nobody expects students to not use the internet. Same here: teachers must accept that AI can and will write papers and answer questions / do homework. How you t…

When I was in high school, we were not allowed to use calculator for most science classes ... And certainly not for math class. I'm ten years, will you want to hire a student who is coming out of college without considerable experience and practice with AI?

Why would I want to hire such a student? What makes him better the better pick than all the other students using AI or all the other non-students using AI?

Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#38

Post by zeroonetwothree »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #27
jurgenaut23 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used em dashes heavily 15 years ago when writing my PhD thesis.

So did every author of classic literature. People who think they can spot AI writing by simple stylistic indicators alone are fooling themselves and hurting real human authors

Let’s just say when my coworkers started sending emails with tons of bold and bullet points when they had never done that before I felt pretty justified in assuming they used AI

Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#39

Post by AlotOfReading »

smoyer wrote: post #26
HeavyStorm wrote: post #17

This ship has sailed. It's how it was with the internet. I grew up in the 90s, and teacher didn't know how to deal with the fact we no longer had to go through multiple books in the library to get the information they needed. We barely needed to write it. Now nobody expects students to not use the internet. Same here: teachers must accept that AI can and will write papers and answer questions / do homework. How you t…

When I was in high school, we were not allowed to use calculator for most science classes ... And certainly not for math class. I'm ten years, will you want to hire a student who is coming out of college without considerable experience and practice with AI?

LLMs work best when the user has considerable domain knowledge of their own that they can use to guide the LLM. I don't think it's impossible to develop that experience if you've only used LLMs, but it requires a very unusual level of personal discipline. I wouldn't bet on a random new grad having that. Whereas it's pretty easy to teach people to use LLMs.

Re: Students using “humanizer” programs to beat accusations of cheating with AI

#40

Post by croes »

zkmon wrote: post #24

Teachers are also heavy users of AI. Entire academic business staff is using AI. The goals of academic assessment need to change. What are they assessing and why? Knowledge retention skills? Knowledge correlations or knowledge expression skills? None of these going to be useful or required from humans. Just like the school kids are now allowed to use calculators in the exam halls. The academic industry need to redefi…

Teachers are also heavy users of solution books, but would not give them to students for this reason.
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