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Meanwhile Apple has always been able to read encrypted iMessage messages and everyone decided to ignore that fact. https://james.darpinian.com/blog/apple-imessage-encryption
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 2025 Blind Item #7 The celebrity CEO says his new chat system is so secure that even he can't read the messages. He is lying. He reads them all the time.
This reads like a nothingburger. Couple of quotes from the article: > the idea that WhatsApp can selectively and retroactively access the content of [end-to-end encrypted] individual chats is a mathematical impossibility > Steven Murdoch, professor of security engineering at UCL, said the lawsuit was “a bit strange”. “It seems to be going mostly on whistleblowers, and we don’t know much about them or their credibilit…
It is not a mathematical impossibility in any way.
For example they might be able to read the backups, the keys might be somehow (accidentaly or not) leaked...
And then the part about Telegram not having end2end encryption? What's this all about?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
they can also just .. brute force passwords. the pin to encrypt fb messenger chat is 6 digits for example.
but that is a pin and can be rate limited / denied, not a cryptograhpic key that can be used to brute force and compare hash generations (?)
> “We look forward to moving forward with those claims and note WhatsApp’s denials have all been carefully worded in a way that stops short of denying the central allegation in the complaint – that Meta has the ability to read WhatsApp messages, regardless of its claims about end-to-end encryption.” My money is on the chats being end to end encrypted and separately uploaded to Facebook.
>being end to end encrypted and separately uploaded to Facebook That's a cute loophole you thought up, but whatsapp's marketing is pretty unequivocal that they can't read your messages. >With end-to-end encryption on WhatsApp, your personal messages and calls are secured with a lock. Only you and the person you're talking to can read or listen to them, and no one else, not even WhatsApp https://www.whatsapp.com/ That…
well that's alright then
facebook's marketing and executives have always been completely above board and completely honest
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>being end to end encrypted and separately uploaded to Facebook That's a cute loophole you thought up, but whatsapp's marketing is pretty unequivocal that they can't read your messages. >With end-to-end encryption on WhatsApp, your personal messages and calls are secured with a lock. Only you and the person you're talking to can read or listen to them, and no one else, not even WhatsApp https://www.whatsapp.com/ That…
> but whatsapp's marketing is pretty unequivocal that they can't read your messages. well that's alright then facebook's marketing and executives have always been completely above board and completely honest
>That's not to say it's impossible that they are secretly uploading your messages, but the implication that they could be secretly doing so while not running afoul of their own claims because of cute word games, is outright false.
Who do they expect to fall for the claims that a Facebook owned messenger couldn't read your "encrypted" messages? It's truly funny. Any large scale provider with headquarters in the USA will be subject to backdoors and information sharing with the government when they want to read or know what you are doing.
Me? I'd be very surprised if they can actually read encrypted messages (without pushing a malicious client update). The odds that no one at Meta would blow the whistle seem low, and a backdoor would likely be discovered by independent security researchers.
Meanwhile Apple has always been able to read encrypted iMessage messages and everyone decided to ignore that fact. https://james.darpinian.com/blog/apple-imessage-encryption
>has always been able to read encrypted iMessage messages ...assuming you have icloud backups enabled, which is... totally expected? What's next, complaining about bitlocker being backdoored because microsoft can read your onedrive files?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
but that is a pin and can be rate limited / denied, not a cryptograhpic key that can be used to brute force and compare hash generations (?)
They likely wouldn’t rate limit themselves, rate limiting only applies when you access through their cute little enter your pin UI.
The PIN interface is also an HSM on the backend. The HSM performs the rate limiting. So they'd need a backdoor'd HSM.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>has always been able to read encrypted iMessage messages ...assuming you have icloud backups enabled, which is... totally expected? What's next, complaining about bitlocker being backdoored because microsoft can read your onedrive files?
If you read the link you would know that contrary to your expectation other apps advertising E2EE such as Google's Messages app don't allow the app maker to read your messages from your backups. And turning off backups doesn't help when everyone else has them enabled. Apple doesn't respect your backup settings on other people's accounts. Again, other apps address this problem in various ways, but not iMessage.
> “We look forward to moving forward with those claims and note WhatsApp’s denials have all been carefully worded in a way that stops short of denying the central allegation in the complaint – that Meta has the ability to read WhatsApp messages, regardless of its claims about end-to-end encryption.” My money is on the chats being end to end encrypted and separately uploaded to Facebook.
I really doubt this. Any such upload would be visible inside the WhatsApp application, which would make it the world's most exciting (and relatively straightforward) RE project. You can even start with a Java app, so it's extra easy.