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Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

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Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#151

Post by tliltocatl »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #47

Can Europe build AI datacenters though? Europe has no wafer production and no companies that produce GPUs. That means it is dependent on Taiwan for wafers and the USA for GPU design. Then there is the question wether there is a will to invest. Gemini gives me this list of publicly traded companies in the US and what they invested in AI infrastructure in 2025: Amazon: $100B Alphabet: $90B Microsoft: $80B Meta: $70B Te…

Do Europe need AI datacenters to survive? AI is immature technology that is not yet critical to anything.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#152

Post by jmyeet »

IMHO Europe has one choice, and it may already be too late, and that is to adopt the China model or to descend into fascism and neoliberal economic collapse.

Europe needs to be responsible for its own security and needs its own versions of all the big American tech companies. This administration has done more to destroy American soft power than any other in history and it's not even close. The US has shown itself to be an unreliable partner.

China now has a record of decades of long-term planning and choosing the interests of its populace over corporate interests. It's not problem free by any means but the food is cheap and plentiful, the priority for housing is availability rather than treating it purely as an investment vehicle, infrastructure such as robust public transit is a priority and from the beginning of the Internet age, China has decided not to be beholden to American tech companies so there are Chinese versions of everything.

One may question Europe's ability to innovate in tech given the comparative lack of unicorns produced (vs the US) but that's irrelevant here, for two reasons:

1. Europe doesn't need to innovate. It just needs to copy; and

2. Forcing EU governments and companies to use European platforms will create a captive market.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#153

Post by gf000 »

lucasRW wrote: post #142
bambax wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have excellent cloud providers in Europe. But most importantly, most businesses using the cloud would be better off with simple on-prem solutions. So much cheaper to operate and control.

They are not European. They are French, or Swiss, or Scandinavian, each of those countries who may sooner or later not align anymore with your strategic interests. Countries should only trust themselves for sensitive stuff.

I mean, the Euro-zone is way more interconnected than that..

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#154

Post by 202508042147 »

margorczynski wrote: post #98
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #47

Can Europe build AI datacenters though? Europe has no wafer production and no companies that produce GPUs. That means it is dependent on Taiwan for wafers and the USA for GPU design. Then there is the question wether there is a will to invest. Gemini gives me this list of publicly traded companies in the US and what they invested in AI infrastructure in 2025: Amazon: $100B Alphabet: $90B Microsoft: $80B Meta: $70B Te…

Well it is like Thiel said in a recent interview - European companies and investors are very risk-averse and will never be a vanguard like the ones in the US. You'll never get here that kind of cash for any risky project, it usually is low risk + low margin.

Maybe we don't need that kind of money for things like office software, email, reasonable sized databases, VPS etc.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#155

Post by deaux »

raincole wrote: post #101
p1anecrazy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be the change you wish to see. If professionals like you join European companies it will help grow their business and offer competitive salaries.

~30% salary cut isn't a change many people wish to see.

There's a reason gambling companies end up paying more than market rates for the same roles, and it's not out of generosity.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#156

Post by deaux »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #18

Europe will never have competitive offerings until they pay their employees the equivalent of what FAANGs pay. If you work for GCP or AWS in Europe, you'll easily get twice as much income as if you do the exact same job for Hetzner or OVH. You can't build equivalents to GCP and AWS without paying the same. I work for a FAANG right now in Europe and I wouldn't consider even a single second any European cloud provider…

There's always money to be made from being a traitor. Maybe next time Yandex Cloud or Aramco Cloud offers you 50% more and off you go.

And yes, I've walked the talk, so I can say this.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#157

Post by ozim »

margorczynski wrote: post #98
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #47

Can Europe build AI datacenters though? Europe has no wafer production and no companies that produce GPUs. That means it is dependent on Taiwan for wafers and the USA for GPU design. Then there is the question wether there is a will to invest. Gemini gives me this list of publicly traded companies in the US and what they invested in AI infrastructure in 2025: Amazon: $100B Alphabet: $90B Microsoft: $80B Meta: $70B Te…

Well it is like Thiel said in a recent interview - European companies and investors are very risk-averse and will never be a vanguard like the ones in the US. You'll never get here that kind of cash for any risky project, it usually is low risk + low margin.

Feels like people write that like it somehow is failure on investors side.

If you are investor on US market having 300M people speaking roughly the same language and then high possibility to easily spill over the world upsides on the bet are really high, burning cash to have a chance hitting jackpot are much much higher than in EU.

In EU you are starting in a single country so like 60M people and your payoff is capped from start at most likely scenario you go big in a single country and then you basically have clean start in next country.

That is the reality of game theory, not some failure of imagination or being scared to take risks - payoff is just not there, in US you have a shot at insane payoff in relatively short term.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#158

Post by tmtvl »

202508042147 wrote: post #49

As a European, I am glad that this is finally discussed in the open! I have made multiple comments in the last weeks that one of the most important things, for me, is an alternative to the Visa/Mastercard duopoly. And yes, I can use an app to pay, but whenever I rent a car or purchase something online, I still use one of these two American companies. Why isn't the European Commission mandating these app payments in d…

> yes, I can use an app to pay

So you move the power from two American companies (Visa and Mastercard) to two American companies (Apple and Google)? What's that supposed to solve?

Also, fuck apps. I had to set up an app for my mother to recharge her new hybrid car and I am not joking: at one point I had to create a log in for her and was greeted by a screen with two options: Log In (blue button, white text), and Log In (white button, blue text). I would rather use cash than an app (and I'm in Belgium, carrying around cash is like herding sheep through coyote territory).

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#159

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

202508042147 wrote: post #49

As a European, I am glad that this is finally discussed in the open! I have made multiple comments in the last weeks that one of the most important things, for me, is an alternative to the Visa/Mastercard duopoly. And yes, I can use an app to pay, but whenever I rent a car or purchase something online, I still use one of these two American companies. Why isn't the European Commission mandating these app payments in d…

We have UPI in India and it's pretty Robust.

My brother actually was part of deal in talks to have UPI pilots as a project within London as a project within his college and I remember him talking about how UPI (India) is in talks with other European countries too.

With the mother of all deals recently signed between EU and India. I sincerely hope that UPI can have access within EU markets too.

If you ever come to India, you can witness the astronomical rise of UPI. From street vendors to literally everybody now has UPI and it has 0 fees and is really great/one of the best.

As for our brazillian friends, I have heard that pix is great too and I have respect to pix as well plus its open source as well. Both Pix and UPI are really great.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#160

Post by smarx007 »

bambax wrote: post #54
adrianN wrote: post #2

I kind of share the opinion of the FSF Europe that it is less important where software comes from compared to whether it’s libre, but for cloud hardware I really hope that we manage to create competitive European offerings. Maybe we’re lucky and this European initiative will produce more than five Fraunhofer institutes and a gift to SAP.

We already have excellent cloud providers in Europe. But most importantly, most businesses using the cloud would be better off with simple on-prem solutions. So much cheaper to operate and control.

Most European "cloud" providers sell "wood": https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/dear-hosting-providers-you...
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