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Self Driving Car Insurance

lemonade.com

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Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#251

Post by elif »

panopticon wrote: post #226
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> quite skeptical of Tesla's reliability claims I'm sceptical of Robotaxi/Cybercab. I'm less sceptical that FSD, supervised, is safer than fully-manual control.

Where I live isn't particularly challenging to drive (rural Washington), but I'm constantly disengaging FSD for doing silly and dangerous things. Most notably my driveway meets the road at a blind y intersection, and my Model 3 just blasts out into the road even though you cannot see cross traffic. FSD stresses me out. It's like I'm monitoring a teenager with their learners permit. I can probably count the number tri…

it's edging into the intersection to get a better view on the camera. it's further than you would normally pull out, but it will NOT pull into traffic.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#252

Post by olyjohn »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #191
FeloniousHam wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current FSD usage is 90% over ~2000 miles (since v14.x). Besides driving everywhere, everyday with FSD, I have driven 4 hours garage to hotel valet without intervention. It is absolutely "Full Self-Driving" and "Autonomous". FSD isn't perfect, but it is everyday amazing and useful.

> My current FSD usage is 90% over ~2000 miles I'd guess my Subaru's lane-keeping utilisation is in the same ballpark. (By miles, not minutes. And yes, I'm safer when it and I are watching the road than when I'm watching the road alone.)

My favorite feature of Subaru's system is when you change lanes, and it stays locked onto the car in the slower lane and slams on the brakes. People behind you love that.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#253

Post by seanmcdirmid »

elif wrote: post #251
panopticon wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live isn't particularly challenging to drive (rural Washington), but I'm constantly disengaging FSD for doing silly and dangerous things. Most notably my driveway meets the road at a blind y intersection, and my Model 3 just blasts out into the road even though you cannot see cross traffic. FSD stresses me out. It's like I'm monitoring a teenager with their learners permit. I can probably count the number tri…

it's edging into the intersection to get a better view on the camera. it's further than you would normally pull out, but it will NOT pull into traffic.

The software probably has a better idea of their car’s dimensions than a human driver, so will be able to get a better view of traffic by pulling out at just the right distance.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#254

Post by _ea1k »

You know what's weird? This is a company that has been using the fleet api for quite a while now to monitor non-professional drivers using FSD on their daily commute, often while distracted doing other things. The latest versions even allow some phone usage.

And yet people are skeptical. I mean, they should be skeptical, given that the company is using this for marketing purposes. It doesn't make sense to just believe them.

But it is strange to see this healthy skepticism juxtaposed with the many unskeptical comments attached to recent Electrek articles with outlandish claims.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#255

Post by cesarvarela »

cptaj wrote: post #232

So, here's a thought... If FSD is going to be a subscription and you will never own our fancy autopilot feature. Why should the user pay for insurance? The user is paying for a service that they do not control and which workings are completely opaque. How can responsibility ever lie with the user in such a situation?

If you buy an autonomous killing robot and ask it to kill someone, who's responsible?

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#256

Post by wrsh07 »

sfblah wrote: post #230
microtherion wrote: post #170

I'm quite skeptical of Tesla's reliability claims. But for exactly that reason, I welcome a company like Lemonade betting actual money on those claims. Either way, this is bound to generate some visibility into the actual accident rates.

One thing that was unclear to me from the stats cited on the website is whether the quoted 52% reduction in crashes is when FSD is in use, or overall. This matters because people are much more likely to use FSD in situations where driving is easier. So, if the reduction is just during those times, I'm not even sure that would be better than a human driver. As an example, let's say most people use FSD on straight US I…

I think this might be right, but it does two interesting things:

1) it let's lemonade reward you for taking safer driving routes (or living in a safer area to drive, whatever that means)

2) it (for better or worse) encourages drivers to use it more. This will improve Tesla's training data but also might negatively impact the fsd safety record (an interesting experiment!)

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#257

Post by panopticon »

elif wrote: post #251
panopticon wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live isn't particularly challenging to drive (rural Washington), but I'm constantly disengaging FSD for doing silly and dangerous things. Most notably my driveway meets the road at a blind y intersection, and my Model 3 just blasts out into the road even though you cannot see cross traffic. FSD stresses me out. It's like I'm monitoring a teenager with their learners permit. I can probably count the number tri…

it's edging into the intersection to get a better view on the camera. it's further than you would normally pull out, but it will NOT pull into traffic.

It's not edging; it enters the street going a consistent speed (usually >10mph) from my driveway. The area is heavily wooded, and I don't think it "sees" the cross direction until it's already in the road. Or perhaps the lack of signage or curb make it think it has the right of way.

My neighbor joked that I should install a stop sign at the end of my driveway to make it safer.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#258

Post by FloatArtifact »

Yes, this is giving away everything about your vehicles driving to a third party for sale or, manufacture. I don't like this personally and I don't like it for my vehicle either. Where I go in my vehicle and when I do it is my business. With vehicles being IoT connected, we are forced to surrender that data as there is no opt-out except for disconnecting the antenna. Not to mention going in to be serviced what kind of data is pulled off.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#259

Post by kube-system »

sroussey wrote: post #206
einpoklum wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but could one not argue that the owner of the self-driving car is _not_ the operator, and it is the car, or perhaps Tesla, which operates it?

Mercedes agrees. They take on liability when their system is operated appropriately.

They say they will, but until relevant laws are updated, this is mostly contractual and not a change to legal liability. It is similar to how an insurance company takes responsibility for the way you operate your car.

If your local legal system does not absolve you from liability when operating an autonomous vehicle, you can still be sued, and Mercedes has no say in this… even though they could reimburse you.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#260

Post by koakuma-chan »

ghaff wrote: post #240
koakuma-chan wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already doesn't make sense to own a car for me. It's cheaper to just call an Uber.

I'm guessing that's a fairly city viewpoint. My car is setup with roofrack and carries a lot of other gear I want. I'm regularly in places without reliable cell etc. Visiting friends can easily be an hour drive.

Yes, a city viewport. I usually just walk, but when I don't I most often take the subway, not even Uber. Though I feel like in Toronto the subway or some part thereof is closed or under maintenance or whatever way too often. It's not very reliable.
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