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Self Driving Car Insurance

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Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#91

Post by bluGill »

jimt1234 wrote: post #33
jasoncartwright wrote: post #5

If it autonomous or self-driving then why is the person in the car paying for the insurance? Surely if it's Tesla making the decisions, they need the insurance?

Not an expert here, but I recall reading that certain European countries (Spain???) allow liability to be put on the autonomous driving system, not the person in the car. Does anyone know more about this?

That is the case everywhere. It is common when buying a product for the contract to include who has liability for various things. The price often changes by a lot depending on who has liability.

Cars are traditionally sold as the customer has liability. Nothing stops a car maker (or even an individual dealer) from selling cars today taking all the insurance liability in any country I know of - they don't for what I hope are obvious reasons (bad drivers will be sure to buy those cars since it is a better deal for them an in turn a worse deal for good drivers), but they could.

Self driving is currently sold as customers has liability because that is how it has always been done. I doubt it will change, but it is only because I doubt there will ever be enough advantage as to be worth it for someone else to take on the liability - but I could be wrong.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#92

Post by Veserv »

gizmo686 wrote: post #71
sktb wrote: post #61

Hmmm. The source for the "FSD is safer" claim might not be wholly independent: "Tesla’s data shows that Full Self-Driving miles are twice as safe as manual driving"

I would be surprised if that was what they were actually looking at. They are an established insurance company with their own data and the actuaries to analyze it. I can't imagine them doing this without at least validating a substantial drop in claims relating to FSD capable cars. Now that they are offering this program, they should start getting much better data by being able to correlate claims with actual FSD usa…

They are a grossly unprofitable insurance company. Your actuaries can undervalue risk to the point you are losing money on every claim and still achieve that.

In fact, Tesla Insurance, the people who already have direct access to the data already loses money on every claim [1].

[1] https://peakd.com/tesla/@newageinv/teslas-push-into-insuranc...

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#93

Post by amelius »

gizmo686 wrote: post #74
jasoncartwright wrote: post #5

If it autonomous or self-driving then why is the person in the car paying for the insurance? Surely if it's Tesla making the decisions, they need the insurance?

Generally speaking, liability for a thing falls on the owner/operator. That person can sue the manufacturer to recover the damages if they want. At some point, I expect it to become somewhat routine for insurures to pay out, then sue the manufacturer to recover.

Or at some point subscribing to a service may be easier than owning the damn thing.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#94

Post by jtbayly »

bluGill wrote: post #78
Larrikin wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the nightmare scenario for me. A forever subscription for the usage of a car. Subscription for self driving will almost be a given with so many bad actors in tech nowadays, but never even being allowed to own the car is even worse.

Subscription for changes to maps and the law makes sense. I'd also pay for the latest safety improvements (but they better be real improvements). However they are likely to add a number of unrelated things and I object to those.

How do maps changes make sense to subscribe to when they are on OSM?

And what do you even mean by subscription to changes to the law?

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#95

Post by zen928 »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #65
jasoncartwright wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet still on relying you to cover it with your insurance. Again, clearly not autonomous.

[flagged]

Disagree. I appreciate their viewpoint tethering corporate claims to reality by illustrating Tesla is obfuscating the classification of their machines to be autonomous, when they actually aren't. Their comments in other thread chains proved to be fruitful when lacking agitators looking to dismiss critique by citing website rules, like the post adding additional detail to how Tesla muddles legal claims by cooking up cherry-picked evidence that work against the driver despite being the insurer.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#96

Post by cyberax »

bluGill wrote: post #88
Sayrus wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Focusing only on price, renting a beafy shared "cloud" computer is cheaper than buying one and changing every 5 years. It's not always an issue for idle hardware. Cars are mostly idle and could be cheaper if shared. But why make them significantly cheaper when you can match the price and extract more profits?

Cars and personal computers have advantages over shared resources that often make them worth the cost. If you want your transport/compute in busy times you may find limitations. (ever got on the train and had to stand because there are no seats? Every had to wait for your compute job to start because they are all busy? Both of these have happened to me).

I ran the numbers, and for most non-braindead cities something like a fleet of 6-seater minivans will easily replace all of local transit.

And with just 6 people the overhead if an imperfect route and additional stops will be measured in minutes.

And of course, it's pretty easy to imagine an option to pay a bit more for a fully personal route.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#97

Post by boredatoms »

BarryMilo wrote: post #69
hamdingers wrote: post #55

The whole point of self-driving cars (to me) is I don't have to own or insure it, someone else deals with that and I just make it show up with my phone when I need it.

Imagine this for a whole neighborhood! Maybe it'd be more efficient for the transport to come at regular intervals though. And while we're at it, let's pick up other people along the way, you'll need a bigger vehicle though, perhaps bus-sized... Half-jokes aside, if you don't own it, you'll end up paying more to the robotaxi company than you would have paid to own the car. This is all but guaranteed based on all SaaS…

> Maybe it'd be more efficient for the transport to come at regular intervals though

Efficient for who, is the problem

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#98

Post by Veserv »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #10

A 50% discount is pretty damning empirical evidence for FSD being better at driving your Tesla than you are.

No it does not. A 50% discount and the insurance still having industry average profit, or at least being profitable at all, would tell you that. Selling at a loss does not indicate your costs are actually lower. You need to wait until we learn if it is actually at a loss.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#99

Post by redanddead »

scottbez1 wrote: post #44
jasoncartwright wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it's neither self-driving, nor autonomous, if I'm on the hook if it goes wrong.

Yeah, Tesla gets to blame the “driver”, and has a history of releasing partial and carefully curated subsets of data from crashes to try to shift as much blame onto the driver as possible. And the system is designed to set up drivers for failure. An HCI challenge with mostly autonomous systems is that operators lose their awareness of the system, and when things go wrong you can easily get worse outcomes than if the…

> has a history of releasing partial and carefully curated subsets of data from crashes to try to shift as much blame onto the driver as possible

Really? Thats crazy.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#100

Post by redanddead »

thelastgallon wrote: post #46
jasoncartwright wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it's neither self-driving, nor autonomous, if I'm on the hook if it goes wrong.

Its neither self-driving, nor autonomous, eventually not even a car! (as Tesla slowly exits the car business). It will be 'insurance' on Speculation as a service, as Tesla skyrockets to $20T market cap. Tesla will successfully transition from a small revenue to pre-revenue company: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYJdKW-UnFQ The last few years of Tesla 'growth' show how this transition is unfolding. S and X productio…

Wild prediction, would love to hear the rest of it
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