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The Great College Hoax

forbes.com

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Re: The Great College Hoax

#11

Post by silvajoao »

vaksel wrote: post #3

In this day and age college is worthless. Its pretty much 4 more years of high school, except this time you are paying $40-160K for it. The problem is that most college students deceive themselves. They go to school thinking that all those people who graduate and get $80-100K jobs are the norm, when they aren't. So they get into debt to pay for school, because "its an investment" and then when they graduate they find…

So you pretty much put off 4 years of salary, 4 years of raises, 4 years of building contacts, 4 years of climbing the corporate ladder [...]

While I agree with much of what you say, 4 years in college surely builds contacts (likely of much better quality than otherwise), and you surely get a kick-start in the corporate ladder (if this is fair or not is another matter).

Re: The Great College Hoax

#12

Post by vaksel »

eznet wrote: post #5
vaksel wrote: post #3

In this day and age college is worthless. Its pretty much 4 more years of high school, except this time you are paying $40-160K for it. The problem is that most college students deceive themselves. They go to school thinking that all those people who graduate and get $80-100K jobs are the norm, when they aren't. So they get into debt to pay for school, because "its an investment" and then when they graduate they find…

Being one of the college students who deceived themselves, I have to admit that I could not have put it better myself. Is it my own dumb fault? Yes, it is. I was an adult and like to think that I was smart enough to have made the decision under my own merit. Should I have researched the reality of post-graduation life more? Yes, again. It is very true that they sale you the dream of 80k - had I only known then that c…

its not really the student's fault. Its the parents/society's. There is this idea, that if you don't go to college after highschool that you are some sort of loser.

When in reality you can self-teach yourself everything they teach you in college. Take programming for example, is it worth going into debt up to your eyeballs, if you could have learned everything on your own?

Re: The Great College Hoax

#13

Post by ensignavenger »

There is a lot of false propaganda spread about the 'value of college'. That being said, there are ways to reduce the expense and increase the return. Just because a few people make poor college financing decisions, and poor decisions about which school to attend, doesn't make all colleges a bad deal.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#14

Post by unalone »

vaksel wrote: post #3

In this day and age college is worthless. Its pretty much 4 more years of high school, except this time you are paying $40-160K for it. The problem is that most college students deceive themselves. They go to school thinking that all those people who graduate and get $80-100K jobs are the norm, when they aren't. So they get into debt to pay for school, because "its an investment" and then when they graduate they find…

I'm one of the people who thinks there's some worth to being in a place with people who all want to learn. College isn't about money. It's about being open to explore.

I'm in a class about religion, another about creative (physical) design, one about interactive multimedia, one about advanced PHP work. Each semester I'm hoping to learn more about things I don't already know much about.

It's not about the degree. I haven't checked to see if I'm on the "prescribed path" to getting my degree, and I'm avoiding some things I need to graduate because they don't interest me (secondary language, technical writing). I'm in college because I want to discover things and I want to have four years to work on the things that fascinate me.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#15

Post by ensignavenger »

vaksel wrote: post #12
eznet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being one of the college students who deceived themselves, I have to admit that I could not have put it better myself. Is it my own dumb fault? Yes, it is. I was an adult and like to think that I was smart enough to have made the decision under my own merit. Should I have researched the reality of post-graduation life more? Yes, again. It is very true that they sale you the dream of 80k - had I only known then that c…

its not really the student's fault. Its the parents/society's. There is this idea, that if you don't go to college after highschool that you are some sort of loser. When in reality you can self-teach yourself everything they teach you in college. Take programming for example, is it worth going into debt up to your eyeballs, if you could have learned everything on your own?

I wouldn't say everything- if you get a really good teacher in a really good program, you can learn a lot in a short amount of time from an expert that you may never be able to learn (or it may take a long time to) on your own.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#16

Post by eli »

Totally offtopic, but I hate it when people link to the Printer Friendly version. It's a whole lot harder to read on a widescreen monitor.

If you don't want to see ads on the regular site, install AdBlock like everyone else.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#17

Post by vaksel »

unalone wrote: post #14
vaksel wrote: post #3

In this day and age college is worthless. Its pretty much 4 more years of high school, except this time you are paying $40-160K for it. The problem is that most college students deceive themselves. They go to school thinking that all those people who graduate and get $80-100K jobs are the norm, when they aren't. So they get into debt to pay for school, because "its an investment" and then when they graduate they find…

I'm one of the people who thinks there's some worth to being in a place with people who all want to learn. College isn't about money. It's about being open to explore. I'm in a class about religion, another about creative (physical) design, one about interactive multimedia, one about advanced PHP work. Each semester I'm hoping to learn more about things I don't already know much about. It's not about the degree. I ha…

if you are open to explore, whats stopping you from learning all those things on your own? If you want to learn, you can get some books from the library or hit the net and learn it on your own. You don't need to get into debt up to your eyeballs to achieve that.

You are taking only 12 college credits..do you really think you can't spend 12 hours a week to learn that stuff on your own?

If you are learning on your own, you could have "taken" all your major classes in 1 year. Gotten a job. And then while working, could learn all that "extra" in your spare time, while being debt free.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#18

Post by unalone »

vaksel wrote: post #17
unalone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the people who thinks there's some worth to being in a place with people who all want to learn. College isn't about money. It's about being open to explore. I'm in a class about religion, another about creative (physical) design, one about interactive multimedia, one about advanced PHP work. Each semester I'm hoping to learn more about things I don't already know much about. It's not about the degree. I ha…

if you are open to explore, whats stopping you from learning all those things on your own? If you want to learn, you can get some books from the library or hit the net and learn it on your own. You don't need to get into debt up to your eyeballs to achieve that. You are taking only 12 college credits..do you really think you can't spend 12 hours a week to learn that stuff on your own? If you are learning on your own,…

I'm taking 16 credits, actually.

Off the top of my head: college gives me people to discuss with, parties to go to, a place to live on my own, a DC++ hub for me to access pretty much anything I want to, and a bunch of professors that I can talk to directly and discuss things with. Plus, it's public school, so if I go the four years I leave with no debt.

I'm not going to college just for classes. Partly I'm here for the social environment. I'm also applying to YC, which I'm hoping means I'll get to spend a year or two doing meaningful stuff, then return to college much wiser and certain of what I want to do.

The funny thing is, when it comes to my major I'm nearly all covered. I've been writing for 6 years, designing for 4, I've used Photoshop and Premiere extensively, and I've worked in teams before. So in classes, I spend most of my time talking directly to the professor about things, I get my work out of the way, and the things I do expect to learn won't strictly be my major. (I'm shoddy at designing with images, for instance.)

Re: The Great College Hoax

#19

Post by arockwell »

BigZaphod wrote: post #6

The fix is to not go into debt just to go to college. A college education is a luxury - but it's one that can be had at an affordable cost if you're ambitious, work your ass off, and take advantage of every grant, job, research position, etc. you can find. IMO, it's the people who do the leg work to get into those kinds of programs and reduce the cost of their own education that ultimately succeed in the end anyway.

It is extremely difficult to get an undergrad education without going into some debt even if you go to a public instituion. I went to a very cheap state school in a low cost of living area and even with a full scholarship I barely escaped without any debt from simply paying for room and board. I held a part-time job but at $7.50/hr it didn't go that far.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#20

Post by fiaz »

This article needs to explicitly state:

1) education is valuable

2) education has become too expensive (implicitly stated)

3) the "hoax" is that of how our credit/debt system works, not about the collegiate system

Already people on this thread are jumping the gun and stating that college sucks and you don't need it. But this is a subjective view and should be taken as such. The only fact that I can get from this article is that college is becoming a financial burden - not that the education obtained is worthless.

There needs to be a way to make education accessible to all. Instead, the cost of getting an education is becoming yet another factor in further dividing the wealthy from the debt-laden.

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