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Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

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Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#41

Post by 055static »

andrewcooke wrote: post #38
055static wrote: post #30

Please clarify: Is [a-zA-Z]*SQL a query language or is it software (i.e. an implementation of an interpreter for a language)?

if i understand what you're asking then i think you'd call it an implementation. both mysql and postgresql are database implementations that can be queried using the sql language. however, both also extend the language (as defined by ansi standard) in various ways.

I'm curious where the most perceived "value" is. For example, is it in the internal structures of the database? Is it in the query language? Is it in the fact that everything is packaged together as a "system"?

I have seen a database that uses an SQL-like language but it is not a RDB. It's said to be much faster than Oracle, but it certainly doesn't need the SQL syntax to work. Needless to say, the speed doesn't come from the SQL syntax. :)

It made me wonder about decoupling the language from the interpreter. Without the SQL characteristic, would anyone be attracted to the MySQL, PostgresSQL, ..., WhizBangSQL systems?

Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#42

Post by spudlyo »

cs702 wrote: post #15

With Oracle slowly transforming MySQL into a 'free-open-core, closed-outer-shell' RDBMS[1], PostgreSQL is quickly becoming the main go-to alternative for anyone who wants to avoid database vendor lock-in. Hopefully SalesForce will contribute its improvements back to the PostgreSQL community. -- [1] For example, see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4400797

Oracle no longer publishing their test cases hardly constitutes "transforming MySQL into a 'free-open-sore, closed-outer-shell' RDBMS", moreover there is no evidence that folks are adopting PostgreSQL because they're afraid of MySQL vendor lock-in. If one feels they must pay from MySQL they can give their money to Oracle, Percona, or MariaDB, all of which whom will happily provide MySQL support for a fee.

PostgreSQL is quickly becoming the main go-to alternative for people who are obsessed with the hip-now shiny thing. These are some of the same folks who will mindlessly advocate zsh over bash, tmux over screen, htop over top, and ack over grep.

Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#43

Post by bwood »

jcdavis wrote: post #8
sargun wrote: post #5

I wonder if they're finally switching from Oracle to Postgres. I know that their Oracle clusters are a significant portion of their bottom line. Alternatively, I wonder if this is a replacement for their new Hbase cluster for feeds. There seem to be lots of projects at SFDC that could be supported by Postgresql. It's going to be great though, considering the community might get some great tools from this.

When I was still at SFDC (January), postgres was being cautiously looked into as an Oracle alternative (along with HBase for certain parts, which has definitely been happening). Glad to see they are going for it.

May I ask why you left Salesforce?

Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#44

Post by klint »

pjscott wrote: post #13
rabidsnail wrote: post #4

Reminder: Salesforce owns Heroku

They do say, though, that the job is to "Design and implement major pieces of the salesforce.com core database infrastructure". That doesn't sound like they're talking about Heroku, at least not as the main reason for their hiring spree.

Be that as it may a Salesforce.com representative told me that the hiring is related to the Heroku Postgres service, not a migration from Oracle to Postgres [1].

Perhaps the person writing the job ad was embellishing by calling it a major piece of the core database infrastructure.

[1] http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/10/salesforce-orac...

Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#45

Post by zem »

055static wrote: post #41
andrewcooke wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if i understand what you're asking then i think you'd call it an implementation. both mysql and postgresql are database implementations that can be queried using the sql language. however, both also extend the language (as defined by ansi standard) in various ways.

I'm curious where the most perceived "value" is. For example, is it in the internal structures of the database? Is it in the query language? Is it in the fact that everything is packaged together as a "system"? I have seen a database that uses an SQL-like language but it is not a RDB. It's said to be much faster than Oracle, but it certainly doesn't need the SQL syntax to work. Needless to say, the speed doesn't come…

what postgresql, mysql etc. provide is a relational database, i.e. a way to store table-structured data with consistency and safety guarantees and efficiently perform operations to retrieve and update rows from it. sql is simply the standard language in which relational queries are expressed.

Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#46

Post by tlogan »

mason55 wrote: post #39
tlogan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then Oracle will buy Salesforce... Larry did say something like that but he said that the price is too high. Here is my predictions: Salesforce is will start investing into new technologies and building cool stuff. However, that will not look good on stock price because R&D costs will skyrocket - and our "efficient" stock market does not like long term visions. The stock price will collapse. The board will panic…

Larry and the Oracle execs truly hate SFDC. They really build up the rivalry internally to Oracle employees and paint Salesforce as the big rival that everyone needs to band together to beat. Combined with the duplication of products that would occur if Oracle acquired Salesforce I would be beyond shocked if it ever happened. At that point Salesforce would be so irrelevant that it wouldn't matter.

In my experience, things you described are probably true, but they have nothing to do with acquisition. Actually it is very much desired (Larry was hating PeopleSoft a few years ago... and see what happen).

And duplication of products was never a problem for Larry: he just kills the one with less customers. For example, in case of BEA and Oracle Application Server: BEA WebLogic replaced Oracle Application Server. In this case, in case of acquisition, Oracle cloud offering will be replaced with Salesforce.

Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#47

Post by Evbn »

spudlyo wrote: post #42
cs702 wrote: post #15

With Oracle slowly transforming MySQL into a 'free-open-core, closed-outer-shell' RDBMS[1], PostgreSQL is quickly becoming the main go-to alternative for anyone who wants to avoid database vendor lock-in. Hopefully SalesForce will contribute its improvements back to the PostgreSQL community. -- [1] For example, see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4400797

Oracle no longer publishing their test cases hardly constitutes "transforming MySQL into a 'free-open-sore, closed-outer-shell' RDBMS", moreover there is no evidence that folks are adopting PostgreSQL because they're afraid of MySQL vendor lock-in. If one feels they must pay from MySQL they can give their money to Oracle, Percona, or MariaDB, all of which whom will happily provide MySQL support for a fee. PostgreSQL…

Postgres has been quietly competent since before this generation of hipsters was born. It is nice to see the user base grow, since MySQL had a huge boost for a long time just for being more noob friendly in a way postgres unfortunately never tried.

And htop is really nice.

Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#48

Post by Evbn »

klint wrote: post #44
pjscott wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do say, though, that the job is to "Design and implement major pieces of the salesforce.com core database infrastructure". That doesn't sound like they're talking about Heroku, at least not as the main reason for their hiring spree.

Be that as it may a Salesforce.com representative told me that the hiring is related to the Heroku Postgres service, not a migration from Oracle to Postgres [1]. Perhaps the person writing the job ad was embellishing by calling it a major piece of the core database infrastructure. [1] http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/10/salesforce-orac...

Or Salesforce is moving to dogfood heroku internally.

Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#49

Post by Evbn »

pbiggar wrote: post #19
olalonde wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it...

I think he's saying that Oracle's aggressive branding of MySQL (and other Sun products) has alienated some people.

Pretty it sure it isn't the branding that's the problem, it's the brand. Oracle is no friend of open source software projects.

Re: Salesforce will hire 40-50 Postgres people

#50

Post by darnaut »

Evbn wrote: post #47
spudlyo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle no longer publishing their test cases hardly constitutes "transforming MySQL into a 'free-open-sore, closed-outer-shell' RDBMS", moreover there is no evidence that folks are adopting PostgreSQL because they're afraid of MySQL vendor lock-in. If one feels they must pay from MySQL they can give their money to Oracle, Percona, or MariaDB, all of which whom will happily provide MySQL support for a fee. PostgreSQL…

Postgres has been quietly competent since before this generation of hipsters was born. It is nice to see the user base grow, since MySQL had a huge boost for a long time just for being more noob friendly in a way postgres unfortunately never tried. And htop is really nice.

> Postgres has been quietly competent since before this generation of hipsters was born.

Nice sound bite but PostgreSQL (as we know) was first released around 1996.

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