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Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

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Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#121

Post by maerF0x0 »

toast0 wrote: post #110
maerF0x0 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The situation of "kid running out between cars" will likley never be solved Nuanced disagree (i agree with your physics), in that an element of the issue is design. Kids running out between cars _on streets that stack building --> yard --> sidewalk --> parked cars --> driving cars. One simple change could be adding a chain link fence / boundary between parked cars and driving cars, increasing the visibility and tim…

How do you add a chain link fence between the parked and driving cars for on-street parking?

there's still an inlet and outlet (kinda like hotel pickup/drop off loops). It's not absolutely perfect, but it constrains the space of where kids can dart from every parked car to 2 places.

Also the point isn't the specifics, the point is that the current design is not optimal, it's just the incumbent.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#123

Post by NoGravitas »

direwolf20 wrote: post #105
boothby wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, "the ledger" should record actual facts, and not whatever fictional alternatives we imagine.

Fact: This child's life was saved by the car being driven by a computer program instead of a human.

Instead of a human who was driving exactly the same as the Waymo up until the instant the child ran out. Important distinction.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#124

Post by hiddencost »

pmontra wrote: post #103

Who is legally responsible in case a Waymo hits a pedestrian? If I hit somebody, it's me in front of a judge. In the case of Waymo?

Are you thinking of civil liability or criminal liability?

Waymo is liable in a civil sense and pays whatever monetary amount is negotiated or awarded.

For a criminal case, some kind of willful negligence would have to be shown. That can pierce corporate veils. But as a result Waymo is being extremely careful to follow the law and establish processes which shield their employees from negligence claims.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#125

Post by mholt »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #2

From the Waymo blog... > the pedestrian suddenly entered the roadway from behind a tall SUV, moving directly into our vehicle's path. Our technology immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge from behind the stopped vehicle. The Waymo Driver braked hard, reducing speed from approximately 17 mph to under 6 mph before contact was made. > Following contact, the pedestrian stood up immediately, w…

The autonomous vehicle should know what it can't know, like children coming out from behind obstructions. Humans have this intuitive sense. Apparently autonomous systems do not, and do not drive carefully, or slower, or give more space, in those situations. Does it know that it's in a school zone? (Hopefully.) Does it know that school is starting or getting out? (Probably not.) Should it? (Absolutely yes.)

This is the fault of the software and company implementing it.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#126

Post by something765478 »

recursive wrote: post #91
drcongo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa! You're allowed to double park outside a school over there?!

Wait, is double parking allowed anywhere?

Pretty common at airports; of course, the `parking` only lasts a few minutes at most.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#127

Post by JKCalhoun »

kakacik wrote: post #120
JKCalhoun wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my problem is that it reacted after seeing the child step out from behind the SUV. An excellent driver would have already seen that possible scenario and would have already slowed to 10 MPH or less to begin with. (It's how I taught my daughter's to drive "defensively"—look for "red flags" and be prepared for the worst-case scenario. SUV near a school and I cannot see behind it? Red flag—slow the fuck down.)

Yes and no. Tons of situations where this is simply not possible, whole traffic goes full allowed speed next to row of parked cars. If somebody unexpectedly pops up distracted, its a tragedy guaranteed regardless of driver's skills and experience. In low traffic of course it can be different. But its unrealistic to expect anybody to drive in expectation that behind every single car passed there may be a child jumping…

I kind of drive that way. I slow down, move as far away in my lane from the parked cars as possible. It's certainly what I would expect from a machine that would claim to be as good as the best human driver.

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#129

Post by micromacrofoot »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #66
micromacrofoot wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo is held to a significantly higher standard than human drivers. They have to be, as a machine can not be held accountable for a decision.

The promise of self-driving cars being safer than human drivers is also kind of the whole selling point of the technology.

Sure, but the companies building them are just shoving billions of dollars into their ears so they don't have to answer "who's responsible when it kills someone?"

Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica

#130

Post by pengaru »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #41

Personally in LA I had a Waymo try to take a right as I was driving straight down the street. It almost T-boned me and then honked at me. I don’t know if there has been a change to the algorithm lately to make them more aggressive but it was pretty jarring to see it mess up that badly

In recent weeks I've found myself driving in downtown SF congestion more than usual, and observed Waymos doing totally absurd things on multiple occasions.

The main saving grace is they all occurred at low enough speeds that the consequences were little more than frustrating/delaying for everyone present - pedestrians and drivers alike, as nobody knew what to expect next.

They are very far from perfect drivers. And what's especially problematic is the nature of their mistakes seem totally bizarre vs. the kinds of mistakes human drivers make.

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