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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#801

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

breve wrote: post #561
Traster wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're totally wrong on this. Tesla didn't waste the first mover advantage. They benefitted from it whilst it existed, but Electric vehicles turned into a commodity, which was entirely expected and there's no moat. You've explained yourself why it would be untenable for Musk to pursue becoming the biggest car manufacturer in the world - if he succeeded in that goal... he would have succeded in shrinking the v…

Why is making humanoid robots a moat? Other companies have been making robots for longer, humanoid and otherwise, and doing it better. Has Optimus signed up for any sports yet: https://edition.cnn.com/2026/01/02/china/china-humanoid-robo... Is Optimus close to what Boston Dynamics is doing with Atlas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIhzUnvi7Fw

> Why is making humanoid robots a moat?

It really isn't. (1)

Also, what's the first billion dollar market for humanoid robots? Industry? "lights-out manufacturing" exists already, and doesn't require humanoid robots.

Hyundai and BYD (among others) say they're going to put humanoid robots in their factories (2). They won't be Tesla robots. Is this really such a huge use?

1)https://www.topgear.com/car-news/tech/here-are-nine-humanoid...

2) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgjm5x54ldo

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#802

Post by WillPostForFood »

palmotea wrote: post #732
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would cybertruck be cancelled?

> Why would cybertruck be cancelled? IIRC, the fully-electric F150 Lighting was canceled due to poor sales, and its sales were better than the Cybertruck's .

It isn't just about sales, it is about margin. F150 Lightning was losing money on each unit produced - they cost about 40% more to product than they sold for. Cybertruck has a positive gross margin, so even though sales are terrible, they don't have have a pressing financial need to cancel it.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#803

Post by [deleted] »

vladms wrote: post #734
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

> If Tesla was valued fairly I think it's a wrong mental model to think of stock market value as "fair" or "unfair" (or maybe it's just me thinking of "unfair" when I see the word "fair"). My impression is that if Tesla would be valued based on quantifiable things it would be much much lower (production costs, competition, revenues, potential, etc.). Of course, you shouldn't value something only based on quantifiable…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#804

Post by Multiplayer »

sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

GM Supercruise on my 2024 Silverado RST is a joke compared to Tesla FSD. It's not even remotely comparable. Supercruise only works on freeways/highways, does not understand ANY navigation. It's a better cruise control, that's about it. I own 2 Tesla model S of different vintages and FSD is a completely different animal. My 2017 model s can navigate from my house to, well, anywhere, with no intervention. I have been very disappointed in how long it took Tesla to get here based on the promises they made 10(!) years ago, but they are there now. Even a year ago FSD used to scare me frequently and cause me to disengage but that never happens now.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#805

Post by cyrialize »

trgn wrote: post #713
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would cybertruck be cancelled?

it's one of their models i would like for them to succeed the most. americans love trucks (especially where i live), and the impact of electric truck replacing ice ones on the gestalt of the neighborhood is significant, no noise, no fumes. people tend to drive their electric cars/trucks more gently too. my neighbor bought one, and it's night and day. and oddly enough, while i kneejerk hated it at first, the design ha…

If you drive a truck because you like trucks, then a Cybertruck works.

If you drive a truck because you need a truck, then Cybertrucks don't really work.

That being said, I think a lot of people are in the first category.

The second category people have things that can be fit in a normal truck, but not a Cybertruck.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#806

Post by alex1138 »

jlongr wrote: post #769
alex1138 wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That valuation is sure interesting considering the people killed in crashes from Tesla's self-driving thing Edit: I love making legitimate points and instantly accruing downvotes from 'Valley VC types. Look yourself in the mirror.

Oh their self-driving thing...Full* "Self" Driving (supervised)(see notes)(not liable for anything)

Sorry, I didn't remember what it was called. FSD, I think

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#807

Post by sidcool »

ceejayoz wrote: post #778
sidcool wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? This comment cant be serious.

It really was the argument there; that he'd been in business so long with such great returns that everyone assumed it had to have been looked into by everyone else. > If a company was overvalued for a couple of years, it's ok to be sceptical. Tesla has been at such high valuations for many years now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff "Madoff said that he began the Ponzi scheme in the early 1990s, but an ex-…

Your last paragraph is the only thing I agree with. Inflated stock != Ponzi

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#808

Post by vannevar »

laughing_man wrote: post #403
vannevar wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people he generated goodwill with don't buy a lot of EVs, apparently.

Nobody's buying EVs in the US since the subsidies expired. GM had a record Q4 because it gave up trying to sell EVs and started flogging expensive land yachts again.

Tesla's sales started declining before the subsidies expired.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#809

Post by sidcool »

rob wrote: post #625
bluescrn wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not about Tesla at all. Yeah, there's been overpromising and underdelivering on self-driving (is anyone doing better yet, though?), but in reality the hate is entirely about Elon and his politics.

Elon Musk doing Nazi salutes and calling people "retarded" on Twitter all the time has absolutely nothing to do with my stance on Tesla or how I feel about them. I just don't like Tesla's vehicles, how they look, or the interiors of them. Nothing to do with the individual.

Did he actually do Nazi salute? Come on. People moved on from that when Mamdani did the same gesture.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#810

Post by trgn »

jefftk wrote: post #727
trgn wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's one of their models i would like for them to succeed the most. americans love trucks (especially where i live), and the impact of electric truck replacing ice ones on the gestalt of the neighborhood is significant, no noise, no fumes. people tend to drive their electric cars/trucks more gently too. my neighbor bought one, and it's night and day. and oddly enough, while i kneejerk hated it at first, the design ha…

> people tend to drive their electric cars/trucks more gently too Really? I tend to see much more aggressive acceleration from people in electric cars (including myself when I'm driving, though I try not to). I've been putting it down to people being used to how gas cars seem to be working harder when you ask them to accelerate heavily, while electric just goes with no complaints.

i guess it's not accompanied with the noise which makes the difference for me
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