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Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

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Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#211

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mixedbit wrote: post #192
sschueller wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have an underlying condition it is way better to get the Vitamin D from the sun in 10-30min increments per day after which you are saturated for the day. Overdose is not possible via the sun (excluding sun burns of course). > A single, optimal sun exposure session might produce the equivalent of 10,000 to 25,000 IU from a supplement, but it will not keep increasing with more time in the sun. That's your…

In winter, even on a sunny day, only tiny fraction of your skin is exposed to sun. 10-30 min of sun when you are wearing tshirt and shorts is much different from 10-30 min of sun when you are wearing long sleeves, gloves, and a scarf.

It's not really the exposed skin that's the issue. At higher latitudes the ultraviolet (UVB) gets scattered by the longer path through the atmosphere and so even if you were naked you still wouldn't be getting enough.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#212

Post by braiamp »

ghusto wrote: post #161
isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

> but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists

Doctors of all countries have been under a lot of pressure by patients and health administrators to "fix the issue and quick". The last thing that your doctor wants is giving you pills so you go away, but that's what the context very strongly incentivize. You want doctors to stop abusing pills, stop asking them for immediate fix. Give them less patients, more time and more resources to deal with the health of the population. Also, prevention.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#213

Post by RobotToaster »

One flaw in this analysis is that the source he cites for antidepressant effectiveness didn't include tranylcypromine (or any MAOI class drugs), which the STAR-D trial found was one of the most effective antidepressants.

(The STAR-D had a cumulative remission rate of 67%, I don't know how to convert that to the format he used)

Otherwise I agree that vit D and omega 3 are underrated for depression, it would be interesting to see if they have a cumulative effect with antidepressants.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#214

Post by isoprophlex »

graemep wrote: post #210
isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

If it is SAD have you tried bright daylight balanced lighting?

Yeah, I have an extremely bright lamp designed to tread SAD that I sit, or well used to sit, in front of every morning. Daylight responsive led strip in my home office. And a pair of glasses with blue LEDs for on the go. It did... 10%? of what citalopram eventually did for me.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#215

Post by poizan42 »

SoKamil wrote: post #104
krona wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being at the beach (in summer) for a half an hour will produce 10,000 and 25,000 IU for the average european. See: Vitamin D and health: evolution, biologic functions, and recommended dietary intakes for vitamin D (293 citations)

Could you cite that claim from the paper?

Not OP, but the paper says on page 8

> An adult in a bathing suit exposed to 1 minimal erythemal dose of ultraviolet radiation (a slight pinkness to the skin 24 h after exposure) was found to be equivalent to ingesting between 10,000 and 25,000 IU of vitamin D (Fig. 6).

Doesn't say 30 minutes, but it may be 30 minutes depending on your skin colour and the local strength of the sun.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#217

Post by RobotToaster »

sschueller wrote: post #87
r1ch wrote: post #4

Please do not take 5000mg/day of Vitamin D. The author confuses IU and mg which is very dangerous.

If you don't have an underlying condition it is way better to get the Vitamin D from the sun in 10-30min increments per day after which you are saturated for the day. Overdose is not possible via the sun (excluding sun burns of course). > A single, optimal sun exposure session might produce the equivalent of 10,000 to 25,000 IU from a supplement, but it will not keep increasing with more time in the sun. That's your…

> it is way better to get the Vitamin D from the sun in 10-30min increments per day

spoken like someone who has never lived in the UK

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#218

Post by dizhn »

isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

I still think you should have tried eating a banana first.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#219

Post by cwillu »

tiffanyh wrote: post #193

Before anyone goes out and overdoses on Vitamn D (since lots of multiple vitamin include too much), see this article on toxicity from too much Vitamin D https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK557876/

Juxtaposing with the quoted passage from the post: “Because vitamin D is potentially toxic, intake of [1000 IU/day] has been avoided even though the weight of evidence shows that the currently accepted [limit] of [2000 IU/day] is too low by at least 5-fold.” --https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000291652...

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#220

Post by matsemann »

arethuza wrote: post #119
sschueller wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have an underlying condition it is way better to get the Vitamin D from the sun in 10-30min increments per day after which you are saturated for the day. Overdose is not possible via the sun (excluding sun burns of course). > A single, optimal sun exposure session might produce the equivalent of 10,000 to 25,000 IU from a supplement, but it will not keep increasing with more time in the sun. That's your…

From NHS Scotland: "In Scotland, we only get enough of the right kind of sunlight for our bodies to make vitamin D between April and September, mostly between 11am and 3pm." https://www.nhsinform.scot/healthy-living/food-and-nutrition... Personally I found that taking Vitamin D supplements made quite a bit of difference - and I spend a fair amount of time outside (~3 hours each day).

And in Norway we often don't see the sun during certain months, due to it only being up for a few hours in the middle of the day (when we're working). And even if I was outside I would be covered in clothes.

We have a saying here to take cod liver oil all months ending with R (in Norwegian that's September to Februar) to get both omega 3 and the vitamin D.

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