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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#331

Post by e_y_ »

willtemperley wrote: post #269
spacebanana7 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You joke, but legally they could. If game engines can charge a licence fee as a % of revenue from games developed on those engines, then legally there's not much to stop apple doing the same. Of course consumers and enterprises wouldn't tolerate it, but the barrier is commercial rather than legal.

[flagged]

It would likely get voided as unconscionable if they just unilaterally demanded it, but it might hold up in specific circumstances (if the user is well-aware of the salary demand when they accepted the contract, and the user gets some proportionate value out of giving Apple a percentage of salary).

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#332

Post by akomtu »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #231

To keep their growth rates going, these mega companies soon need to swallow the whole country’s GDP. I really wonder where this is going. They can’t keep growing at some point.

This might become technocracy at some point, if the corporations become stronger than the state govs. In that case, the entire NOAM region will become a so-called technate, ruled by a form of ToS. I'd say, technocracy is way worse than even autocracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#333

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

supernes wrote: post #210

How long until they make the argument that they're entitled to 30% of your salary because you use Apple hardware to do your work?

All the regulators in the world have their sights set on them and they know it. The light is half on already and the music is slowing. This party is soon to be over. It's a last ditch attempt at milking all they can.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#335

Post by dns_snek »

nout wrote: post #188
cephi wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may regret asking but what is your solution, then?

My (user) solution would be to use Patreon on the web, or on Android. No one is forcing you to use specifically the native Apple app. On top of that Patreon is a closed centralized platform that's bound to have issues like this and that's where I very much prefer using protocols (vs platforms) that enable the same. There are very similar solutions to Patreon, but based on nostr and related protocols. What is your sol…

> My point is that you ask for regulation hoping that it will prevent this type of issue, but the regulation that you actually get will be barely having any effect and it will enforce ID + picture verification, it will enforce downloading specific government sanctioned keylogger app,

This is nonsense. Yes bad regulation is bad regulation, that's not an argument against regulation but an argument against bad regulation. Not all regulation is bad regulation - in fact most of it is good regulation. I enjoy not drinking feces for example but I'd love to hear your thoughts on how regulation against poopy drinking water is going to be turned against me.

> New systems, new complexity, harder for newcomers to start business... Things like this are always added in the fine print.

Good regulation recognizes that small businesses don't have the same ability to comply with complex requirements, so it creates exceptions for small business or relaxes requirements.

By all means, please advocate for good regulation and call out bad regulation, but pretending that regulation is unnecessary or inherently harmful only serves the interest of capital at everyone else's expense.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#336

Post by debugnik »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #315
cybrox wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people pay for the exclusive content which is curated on Patreon and their app.

Oh, fair enough — I've only known Patreon the 'open' way before. So the Patreon app is actually an exclusive publisher of some content? Do they actually market that feature?

Nearly every Patreon creator I know of has subscription tiers with exclusive content. Posts can require a minimum tier to view them, creator pages list the tiers you can join, and your feed teases you posts you could access if you joined the right tier from creators you follow.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#337

Post by simondotau »

troupo wrote: post #301
simondotau wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be cheering on Epic Games if they were going after Sony and Nintendo with equal fervour. Personally, I don’t see why any developer should be allowed free rein on anyone else’s platform when it comes to the selling of games and virtual hats. Personally I think Apple should have two pricing tiers: one for interactive entertainment, and one for everything else. For interactive entertainment, a flat 30% on everything…

That's what Apple already doing: applying arbitrary categories and charging arbitrary amounts of money because "transaction costs and platform or something". 1. Where the hell is the notion of "using the platform for free" even coming from (it's coming from Apple of course). I didn't know that iPhones are free, or that dev fees are waived for everyone. 2. Why the hell can't I use a different payment processor tham Ap…

For interactive entertainment, I see no moral obligation for Apple to adopt any particular policy unless all major digital game store operators (Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Valve etc) are subject to the same requirements.

For all other apps, I agree that alternative payment processing should be permitted for one-off transactions. And I can agree for subscriptions as well, provided the developer can meet a high standard for simple, frictionless cancellations.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#338

Post by fc417fc802 »

simondotau wrote: post #235
DANmode wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It rips off everyone . Epic Games went to federal court over this with Apple like 40 fuckin times - a related fun read for you.

I’d be cheering on Epic Games if they were going after Sony and Nintendo with equal fervour. Personally, I don’t see why any developer should be allowed free rein on anyone else’s platform when it comes to the selling of games and virtual hats. Personally I think Apple should have two pricing tiers: one for interactive entertainment, and one for everything else. For interactive entertainment, a flat 30% on everything…

> I don’t see why any developer should be allowed free rein on anyone else’s platform

Is it a "platform" the way a console is or is it a public marketplace? I'd think the distinction comes down to size relative to the rest of the market. If I run a private club that caters to a only a few people I'm not impacting anyone else. Whereas if I run a giant chain of so called "private clubs" that in reality 50% of the town purchases their groceries from then perhaps some scrutiny by the regulator is in order.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#339

Post by Fokamul »

So weird, why do you need Patreon dedicated app in appstore?

There is really so many people visiting Patreon, only because it's in Crapple appstore?

Or is this because they want to support as many payment methods as possible. And Apple Pay support requirements is to have an app?

Would be great, if they simple take a hit and gutted the app and redirect all people into website.

If they have good PR team, with proper messaging, they could make even more money, since people on Patreon usually don't like corpos.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#340

Post by simondotau »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #338
simondotau wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be cheering on Epic Games if they were going after Sony and Nintendo with equal fervour. Personally, I don’t see why any developer should be allowed free rein on anyone else’s platform when it comes to the selling of games and virtual hats. Personally I think Apple should have two pricing tiers: one for interactive entertainment, and one for everything else. For interactive entertainment, a flat 30% on everything…

> I don’t see why any developer should be allowed free rein on anyone else’s platform Is it a "platform" the way a console is or is it a public marketplace? I'd think the distinction comes down to size relative to the rest of the market. If I run a private club that caters to a only a few people I'm not impacting anyone else. Whereas if I run a giant chain of so called "private clubs" that in reality 50% of the town…

You quoted a sentence fragment that, when read in isolation, conveys a position I emphatically reject.

To answer your question directly: I contend that when it comes to operating a marketplace for interactive entertainment, an iPhone is no different from a Nintendo Switch, and if you want to impose rules, they must be imposed equally. For all other apps, I think Epic made some valid points.

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