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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#371

Post by avhception »

lnsru wrote: post #355
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Expensive experiment failed, it’s time for consequences. Does Tesla have resources for another car experiment? Will it stay a car company?.. Or it will be…

... but they aren't canceling the Cybertruck?

Re: Robots bla bla: yeah, of course. FSD bla bla. Meh.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#373

Post by qingcharles »

laughing_man wrote: post #217
vannevar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with being a car company is that they'd have to compete with China. It's possible, but they'd have to make additional capital investments to keep up. They've just wasted a ton of money on a failed Musk vanity project (Cybertruck) and squandered a ton of goodwill in their home market via the DOGE fiasco. Cash flow is not what it once was, and if they're going to make a big capital investment, they're proba…

He generated a lot of goodwill with "that DOGE fiasco", too. It just depends on where you fall politically.

Elon's a strange hero for MAGA. All the hardcore rural MAGAs I know hate Elon. They consider him a rich dickhead nerd (and group him with Gates) and they hate EVs with a passion, since they are quiet and produce no black smoke.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#374

Post by qingcharles »

annexrichmond wrote: post #219
harshaw wrote: post #15

I am confused about what Tesla is doing. They have effectively two automobile products now with one failed product (cybertruck). reading various articles about this doesn't make it more clear. Do they not want to be a car company?

How do you suppose Cybertruck is a failure? I see just as many of them as Rivians, while releasing over 5 years later.

I regularly see Rivians. I've never once seen a Cybertruck in real life. (Midwest USA)

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#375

Post by qingcharles »

Slothrop99 wrote: post #253
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The X and S were always very low volume niche products unlike the much more mainstream Y and 3. I wouldn’t read much into it.

S you can understand, because sedans are dead. But every other US auto company is making big profits with large SUVs, so I don't get dropping X. Agree with other posters who say whatever you think of Musk, Tesla styling has gotten very stale.

Tesla have always said the design of the X was a mistake of over-engineering. I'm guessing there was no money to be made from it, especially as the sales dwindled.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#376

Post by theshackleford »

ruszki wrote: post #294
direwolf20 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything China isn't far ahead in? Maybe capitalism was a failure.

Making good cars. They can make cheap ones, maybe acceptable ones, but not good ones. They are not there yet. Of course, the general populace doesn’t really care, and the vast majority of the market is not driven by this, but still.

> Making good cars. They can make cheap ones, maybe acceptable ones, but not good ones.

Did you just get out of your Time Machine from a decade ago?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#377

Post by sawjet »

wombatpm wrote: post #28
baron816 wrote: post #12

> converting Fremont factory lines to make Optimus robots I’m very bullish on humanoid robots, but this seems absolutely batshit insane to me. These things are no where near ready for full scale production.

If the can walk and randomly fire teargas and bullets into crowds of protesters they could replace half of ICE right now.

This would only replace a small fraction of ICE, and only in states that don't cooperate with federal law enforcement officers.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#378

Post by jrflowers »

dddgghhbbfblk wrote: post #364
CursedSilicon wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private taxis don't compete with public transit. They operate in completely different spheres

As a blanket statement that's not true with NYC being the most obvious (but not the only) counterexample.

Do you commute to and from work every day by taxi in NYC

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#379

Post by shalmanese »

lnsru wrote: post #355
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Expensive experiment failed, it’s time for consequences. Does Tesla have resources for another car experiment? Will it stay a car company?.. Or it will be…

> Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch.

Yeah, that would be the Model 2, which Musk cancelled, then denied he cancelled, then has made no effort to review whatsoever so it exists in a limbo state of zero people working on it but it not being officially cancelled. Either way, it didn't come out in 2025 as planned.

https://www.cbtnews.com/tesla-execs-raise-red-flags-after-mu...

For a normal company, this would be disastrous. For a meme stock, this makes total sense since anyone claiming the Model 2 is dead can be shouted at by fans saying Musk himself disputed it was dead.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#380

Post by ben_w »

cschmatzler wrote: post #351
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

I agree that this decision is insane and the whole Optimus/xAI bullshit is tiring, especially with the shareholders actually voting against the xAI investment, but you should try today's FSD. It's genuinely good and shouldn't be discarded wholesale because the guy sucks.

If Tesla's FSD existed in isolation, it would be a fantastic breakthrough that signposted the future.

If.

It doesn't exist in isolation. The competition isn't just from the American firms, but also European and Chinese, and it isn't really possible to overlook Musk himself given both his long history of Musk over-promising and under-delivering, deflecting blame.

Even the current release isn't what Musk was talking hopefully about a decade ago, e.g.:

  Our goal is, and I feel pretty good about this goal, that we'll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy all the way from LA to New York, from home in LA to let's say dropping you off in Times Square in New York, and then having the car go park itself, by the end of next year. Without the need for a single touch, including the charger.
- Oct 2016, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autono...

Likewise, based on a video I saw recently from someone reproducing Tesla's 2016 "Paint It Black" drive, Tesla's AI is only now around the performance level that they faked in 2016.

Don't get me wrong, that level was impressive… just, the world isn't isolated developments.

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