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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#51

Post by cyberax »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #25
joshstrange wrote: post #9

When the App Store first launched I think 30% was pretty fair fee for Apple to collect, but that was a long time ago, and before IAP/Subscriptions. Apple might still be entitled to some percentage but they've expanded to cover more and more things (like this Patreon change or Kindle back in the day) and now we have moved far, far beyond the pale. Apple (perhaps like all corporations but I'm focusing on Apple) is a gr…

30% was always excessive. I suspect developers are looking for these workaround because of the 30%. If Apple had asked for, say, 10%, would there be as many developers looking for loopholes? I don't know. Apple perhaps should ask for compensation for "vouching for" the developer's app, hosting the app, distributing the app. But Steam shows us another model where the developer themselves pay a modest up-front cost to…

I think a lot of developers were willing to let it slide when App Store was a luxury market. You could just ignore it and make regular webapps and/or desktop software.

But now iOS is the most popular computing platform in the US. We no longer _have_ an option to ignore it.

And 30% is just crazy. And it's _on_ _top_ of all other expenses: Apple hardware that you need to buy to develop for iOS, $100 per year subscription fee, overhead of using Apple's shitty tools, etc.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#52

Post by scottyah »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #25
joshstrange wrote: post #9

When the App Store first launched I think 30% was pretty fair fee for Apple to collect, but that was a long time ago, and before IAP/Subscriptions. Apple might still be entitled to some percentage but they've expanded to cover more and more things (like this Patreon change or Kindle back in the day) and now we have moved far, far beyond the pale. Apple (perhaps like all corporations but I'm focusing on Apple) is a gr…

30% was always excessive. I suspect developers are looking for these workaround because of the 30%. If Apple had asked for, say, 10%, would there be as many developers looking for loopholes? I don't know. Apple perhaps should ask for compensation for "vouching for" the developer's app, hosting the app, distributing the app. But Steam shows us another model where the developer themselves pay a modest up-front cost to…

To be fair, the fee is really 15%- 30% only comes into play only after you've made $1mm USD in the prior year.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#53

Post by thisislife2 »

mort96 wrote: post #49
thisislife2 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have an alternative to both Google and Apple, which gives you the best of both worlds - it's called the Sailfish mobile OS - https://sailfishos.org/ . (As for my snarky post, read my other comment in this same thread to understand why I posted what I posted.)

I don't think I can send or receive money to and from my friends or pay my public transport fare from Sailfish.

If there's an Android app for it, it should run on Sailfish OS too. They are working hard to make more and more apps compatible with it as this old discussion highlights - https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/banking-apps-on-sailfish-os/1...

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#54

Post by dpc_01234 »

dymk wrote: post #34
thisislife2 wrote: post #26

I call this the Apple "idiot tax" - 'cos you have to be an idiot in letting Apple exploit you (the developer and the user) this brazenly.

Victim blaming

Oh, now ios users are an oppressed group. How cute.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#55

Post by mort96 »

thisislife2 wrote: post #53
mort96 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I can send or receive money to and from my friends or pay my public transport fare from Sailfish.

If there's an Android app for it, it should run on Sailfish OS too. They are working hard to make more and more apps compatible with it as this old discussion highlights - https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/banking-apps-on-sailfish-os/1...

These days, Google has foolproof ways for an app to query and check if it's running on a "genuine" (read: Google-controlled, locked down) system.

I'm not switching to Sailfish.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#57

Post by chongli »

frizlab wrote: post #28

I think it’s not that simple. These are not my words and I cannot only post the link [0] as the author uses the referrer to hide his articles from HN, but here’s the text: Once again, Patreon is going to strong-arm all of us into "charge at the moment of sign-up" instead of "charge on the first of the month." They have wanted this for years, and once again they are saying that Apple has given them cover to demand it.…

Why do you have to do merch fulfillment on a daily basis? Just inform people before signup that you only send out membership cards on the first of the month and if they sign up at any other time they'll have to wait until the first of the next month to get their card sent in the mail.

Alternatively, they could show up at the nightclub in person and bring their phone with proof of purchase and the bouncer could hand them a membership card and cross their name off a list.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#58

Post by tessela »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #6
legitster wrote: post #3

This means Apple is literally going to take nearly 3x in fees from Patreon's customers than Patreon is taking from their own customers. My understanding is that the reason the number 30% is so magical is a historical anomaly. When software was physically distributed back in the day, 15% of the MSRP was reserved for the distributor and another 15% for the retailer. When these digital marketplaces were set up, the comp…

My understanding was that the retailer margin was 50% and the distributor margin was 10%. So Apple/Steam/etc went "half of 60% is a great deal". Of course the retailer margin is never actually 50%. That's theoretical if 100% of product is sold at MSRP. Actual retail margins are about 25% because of sales, write-offs, et cetera. OTOH when there's a sale in Steam, they still get their full cut (of the reduced price).

I remember writing apps for PalmOS (long time ago) distributors like PalmGear took over 60% from international developers like me, plus they held your earnings until you hit a minimum payout threshold. Add bank fees on top of that, and it was basically not worth developing for the platform. 30% felt like a godsend in comparison. (I'm not defending the Apple / Google tax)

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#60

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

legitster wrote: post #3

This means Apple is literally going to take nearly 3x in fees from Patreon's customers than Patreon is taking from their own customers. My understanding is that the reason the number 30% is so magical is a historical anomaly. When software was physically distributed back in the day, 15% of the MSRP was reserved for the distributor and another 15% for the retailer. When these digital marketplaces were set up, the comp…

Had no idea about the history and the 15%/15% split but when the topic comes up I just remember how good the 30% seemed back in, what, 2008?

It made perfect sense that this shiny new iOS platform would take 30% of a cheap app to ensure that it matches the high quality of iOS. These were little productivity apps and games at the time.

This however - I just don't understand what the need is for an app at all for Patreon. Isn't this a website/platform kind of thing? Wouldn't an app just be an additional window into the Patreon platform?

What's next - 30% of my pizza price goes to Apple because I ordered it on my phone?

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