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I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

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Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#31

Post by potatolicious »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #13
potatolicious wrote: post #3

An exercise more people should partake in. Sometimes on HN I find it shocking just how completely clueless some of our prolific commentators are re: prejudice, whether by race, gender, creed, orientation, or anything else. The number of times I've seen people in privileged positions try to downplay, trivialize, and belittle those struggling with prejudice has made me want to quit HN more than once. Walking a mile in…

I agree, and I wish we could do that, but how? I won't look half as convincing if I wrap a scarf around my head. I have thought about this after reading about Günther Wallraff[1], and I haven't found a nice way to try this out. Maybe I should "dress up" on the internet? So far, the closest experience I have is being white and understanding Chinese - but it doesn't hurt nearly as much, the worst people regularly think…

When it comes to skin color it's definitely a tall order - but it's realistic to do it re: orientation, wealth, or a large number of other factors where major discrimination happens.

This is a similar story: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cross-closet-straight-christian...

The whole masquerade part also isn't strictly necessary, putting yourself close to the issues at hand is also helpful. I've never been homeless, but I've worked at three separate organizations related to homelessness (an employment/retraining program, a transitional home, and a straight-up shelter) and met many people that way. I will likely never gain a complete understanding of what it is like, but hopefully I've picked up enough of the big things that I'm being less of a net-negative on the world.

Mark Twain once said (or perhaps according to the Internet Mark Twain once said): "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - purposefully exposing yourself to different types of people along all arbitrary lines of division in a substantial way may be the next best thing.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#32

Post by [deleted] »

guylhem wrote: post #9

If wearing a hijab cause people to call you names, throw bad looks or more generally makes you feel discriminated against, what about trying not to wear an hijab?? Maybe I'm clueless and prejudiced and all that but it seems to me that religion was a perfectly "open" choice, ie something you can change at any time. Comparing that in any way to racism is insulting. People do not chose their ethnicity. People can chose…

[deleted]

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#34

Post by gurkendoktor »

wpietri wrote: post #23
gurkendoktor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and I wish we could do that, but how? I won't look half as convincing if I wrap a scarf around my head. I have thought about this after reading about Günther Wallraff[1], and I haven't found a nice way to try this out. Maybe I should "dress up" on the internet? So far, the closest experience I have is being white and understanding Chinese - but it doesn't hurt nearly as much, the worst people regularly think…

How about a turban? You could go for a Sikh turban: http://www.sikhnet.com/pages/tyingturbans or a Muslim one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r1_HfOMRBM I'm sure you could go to a local gurdwara or mosque and ask for pointers. They'd probably be over the moon. It's also not particularly hard to look verging-on-homeless poor.

Right, but I am white as paper and it takes a while to grow a beard. I would look like a male convert, something that (to me) seems much more exotic than a tanned person wearing a turban.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#35

Post by wpietri »

hnolable wrote: post #5

One aspect that is probably being confounded here is that hair plays a huge role in attractiveness. By putting on a hijab and hiding her hair this girls attractiveness (at least by western standards) probably went down a bunch of points. So part of what she may have just experienced is what it's like to be an uglier person. An interesting experiment to come up with would be to wear something that clearly indicates yo…

Or she could put her hair in a hat.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#36

Post by ignignokt »

mgkimsal wrote: post #24
ceejayoz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm surprised to see women dressed like that out in public on their own, because I've been led to believe they need male escorts, and assume that one might be around. That's a very, very small subset of hijab wearers, and you're unlikely to see any of them at a Western mall.

Possibly, but how can I be sure? Really not trolling at all, but trying to make any assumptions about what's 'safe' in situations where someone's life may be at stake, I err on the side of caution.

Don't you think that your thinking that she might be killed for you looking at her is prejudicial against Muslim men? Seems offensive to me if you won't look at someone because you assume a man will kill her for it...

Do you not look at all women because they might have insanely jealous boyfriends who will then kill them for that too, hey it's technically possible right, so you should err on the side of caution?

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#37

Post by ftwinnovations »

ceejayoz wrote: post #11
sergiotapia wrote: post #8

So? If I were to go to Saudi Arabia and wear jeans and a wife beater I would get looks as well. You find it strange that people look at you funny when you wear a hijab in a western country? I have a Muslim cousin and she sometimes wears a hijab to university but stopped because people would stare at her. Obviously! She stuck out like a sore thumb amidst a sea of people with no hijabs. She got tired of people asking h…

Interesting that you think "look at you funny" and "called me a terrorist" are equivalent.

I wonder what they would do in one of those countries that attacks and kills people at embassies or sends jihadists off to crash planes into buildings. Probably a little worse than look at you funny or call you a name.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#38

Post by gurkendoktor »

potatolicious wrote: post #31
gurkendoktor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and I wish we could do that, but how? I won't look half as convincing if I wrap a scarf around my head. I have thought about this after reading about Günther Wallraff[1], and I haven't found a nice way to try this out. Maybe I should "dress up" on the internet? So far, the closest experience I have is being white and understanding Chinese - but it doesn't hurt nearly as much, the worst people regularly think…

When it comes to skin color it's definitely a tall order - but it's realistic to do it re: orientation, wealth, or a large number of other factors where major discrimination happens. This is a similar story: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cross-closet-straight-christian... The whole masquerade part also isn't strictly necessary, putting yourself close to the issues at hand is also helpful. I've never been homeless, but…

Ooohh, orientation is a fun one. I have never thought about that - thanks for the idea. I'll make a note for when I'm back home.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#39

Post by ninetax »

mgkimsal wrote: post #15

Total western white-male stereotype-infused ignorance here but... Perhaps people avoid muslim women because we don't want them to get in to trouble. I'm surprised to see women dressed like that out in public on their own, because I've been led to believe they need male escorts, and assume that one might be around. if I make eye-contact, I might be contributing to an honor-killing, or perhaps some acid-splashed on her…

Who led you to believe that?

Many American-Muslim women wear a hijab by choice and are very friendly/social people who would be glad to interact with others.

There is a difference between culture and religion. A person who practices Islam in America might have entirely different cultural customs than a person who practices Islam in Afghanistan. (i. e. male escorts, eye contact, etc)

Please don't rely on FUD to inform your opinions/prejudices/judgments. And when in doubt ask.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#40

Post by wpietri »

guylhem wrote: post #9

If wearing a hijab cause people to call you names, throw bad looks or more generally makes you feel discriminated against, what about trying not to wear an hijab?? Maybe I'm clueless and prejudiced and all that but it seems to me that religion was a perfectly "open" choice, ie something you can change at any time. Comparing that in any way to racism is insulting. People do not chose their ethnicity. People can chose…

Oh, so by that logic I can treat converts to Judaism like shit, but I should be nice to people who are ethnically Jewish?

Do you think I should ask them first before acting like a prejudiced asshole? Or should I just try to guess based on appearance?

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