U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#111

Post by airstrike » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:30 PM UTC

JuniperMesos wrote: post #22

The implicit assumption that this is a bad thing is grounded in the assumption that anyone who is a STEM PhD is automatically someone the US government should want to employ, which I don't think is true. Academia is a badly broken system, and many people with formal credentials like PhDs have wasted huge amounts of time and effort on producing what is ultimately low-quality scientific work. This is a pretty uncontrov…

No, the implicit assumption is that losing these 10k PhDs is worse than not losing them.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#112

Post by rwyinuse » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:30 PM UTC

JuniperMesos wrote: post #99

ixtli wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're saying that this is a step in the direction of "fixing" academia. I don't see any evidence of that, all i see is fewer scientists receiving decreasing funding in a state where weve already been slashing basic research investment for generations. Also, there is no evidence that the ones that are leaving are the least productive. Intuitively it's likely the opposite: the ones who have the most pot…

I'm not claiming that this is a step in the direction of fixing academia; I'm claiming that, because academia is currently broken, we shouldn't assume that the ~10k people who got PhDs under the current system are people doing actually-valuable work for the federal government and ultimately the American people.

Knowing current administration anti-science approach to things like climate and health, I wouldn't be all at surprised if many of those who left academia were ones producing quality work that just didn't align with Trump admin's ideology.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#113

Post by ReptileMan » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:30 PM UTC

ixtli wrote: post #38

JuniperMesos wrote: post #22

The implicit assumption that this is a bad thing is grounded in the assumption that anyone who is a STEM PhD is automatically someone the US government should want to employ, which I don't think is true. Academia is a badly broken system, and many people with formal credentials like PhDs have wasted huge amounts of time and effort on producing what is ultimately low-quality scientific work. This is a pretty uncontrov…

It sounds like you're saying that this is a step in the direction of "fixing" academia. I don't see any evidence of that, all i see is fewer scientists receiving decreasing funding in a state where weve already been slashing basic research investment for generations. Also, there is no evidence that the ones that are leaving are the least productive. Intuitively it's likely the opposite: the ones who have the most pot…

People start being inventive when tight on resources, so a bit of evolutionary pressure is not a bad thing.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#114

Post by cbb330 » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:31 PM UTC

morelandjs wrote: post #70

JuniperMesos wrote: post #22

The implicit assumption that this is a bad thing is grounded in the assumption that anyone who is a STEM PhD is automatically someone the US government should want to employ, which I don't think is true. Academia is a badly broken system, and many people with formal credentials like PhDs have wasted huge amounts of time and effort on producing what is ultimately low-quality scientific work. This is a pretty uncontrov…

The tail of the distribution justifies the entire distribution. I agree that a large percentage of PhD research is inconsequential, but a small percentage is massively consequential. It’s ok to whiff on a thousand STEM PhDs if you pick up one Andrej Karpathy (for example).

The US doesn’t have enough money to fund the entire distribution

And as a tax payer I prefer discretionary spending for high performers.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#115

Post by krona » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:31 PM UTC

sheikhnbake wrote: post #98

ixtli wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're saying that this is a step in the direction of "fixing" academia. I don't see any evidence of that, all i see is fewer scientists receiving decreasing funding in a state where weve already been slashing basic research investment for generations. Also, there is no evidence that the ones that are leaving are the least productive. Intuitively it's likely the opposite: the ones who have the most pot…

It also flies in the face of China's currently accelerating pace of research and breakthroughs by producing insane numbers of STEM majors and PhDs

Which breakthroughs, specifically? There are no Chinese institutions pumping out nobel prizes. Zero.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#116

Post by Braxton1980 » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:31 PM UTC

zerof1l wrote: post #24

BrenBarn wrote: post #11

The scarier part is that a lot of people will see this as good news.

Why? If they instead move to EU, that's a win for EU.

You know he means some US citizens who are anti- intellectual due to a combination of insecurities and propaganda by the Republican party

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#117

Post by biophysboy » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:32 PM UTC

JuniperMesos wrote: post #22

The implicit assumption that this is a bad thing is grounded in the assumption that anyone who is a STEM PhD is automatically someone the US government should want to employ, which I don't think is true. Academia is a badly broken system, and many people with formal credentials like PhDs have wasted huge amounts of time and effort on producing what is ultimately low-quality scientific work. This is a pretty uncontrov…

People have tabulated the value of the academic pipeline, from grant to paper to patent to stock valuation. It is overall very valuable, even if you grant the very real issues with our hyper-competitive grant system.

This intellectual capital is valuable, despite whatever the latest populist memes about professors claim.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#118

Post by roughly » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:32 PM UTC

JuniperMesos wrote: post #104

sheikhnbake wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also flies in the face of China's currently accelerating pace of research and breakthroughs by producing insane numbers of STEM majors and PhDs

China is famous for low-quality research and bad papers, which is exactly what you'd expect from a system that grants an expanded number of formal credentials to people who aren't actually doing good scientific research.

China was famous for low-quality products as well.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#119

Post by bigyabai » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:32 PM UTC

JuniperMesos wrote: post #104

sheikhnbake wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also flies in the face of China's currently accelerating pace of research and breakthroughs by producing insane numbers of STEM majors and PhDs

China is famous for low-quality research and bad papers, which is exactly what you'd expect from a system that grants an expanded number of formal credentials to people who aren't actually doing good scientific research.

Be that as it may, China also has persistent threat actors outfoxing American cybersecurity in the form of Salt Typhoon. The cards are on the table, and the US is already undoubtedly losing several fronts of asymmetrical warfare.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#120

Post by yobbo » Tue, Jan 27, 2026, 7:32 PM UTC

ixtli wrote: post #38

JuniperMesos wrote: post #22

The implicit assumption that this is a bad thing is grounded in the assumption that anyone who is a STEM PhD is automatically someone the US government should want to employ, which I don't think is true. Academia is a badly broken system, and many people with formal credentials like PhDs have wasted huge amounts of time and effort on producing what is ultimately low-quality scientific work. This is a pretty uncontrov…

It sounds like you're saying that this is a step in the direction of "fixing" academia. I don't see any evidence of that, all i see is fewer scientists receiving decreasing funding in a state where weve already been slashing basic research investment for generations. Also, there is no evidence that the ones that are leaving are the least productive. Intuitively it's likely the opposite: the ones who have the most pot…

You are assuming there is meaningful work for them in the federal government. There might be more productive work for them in industry. Their contribution to the workforce could put pressure on inflated salaries, if that is the case.

If their credentials exceed their defacto responsibilities in the government, they might be blocking someone else from being promoted or otherwise "growing" or whatever.