Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

531–540 of 839 posts

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#531

Post by ch4s3 »

sothatsit wrote: post #66
ch4s3 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My real anger at airport screening is that we have found it possible to fund and implement this level of screening, at massive monetary, human and privacy cost, but I can't go to my doctor and for a few pennies (sorry, those don't exist now, how about for a few nickles?) get a body scan that does all the 3d segmentation, recognition, etc etc etc. We could actually save lives This always strikes me as a weird thing…

People should be able to do full 3d scans of their bodies, and then doctors should be able to tell them what they should ignore. If they spot something abnormal they could suggest coming back 6 months or a year later to check if it has changed, just like mole scans. The problems that you suggest only come from people overreacting to test results. We can do better.

You can now in the US it’s just expensive, and of little medical value:

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#532

Post by amiga386 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #452
amiga386 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Failed_airliner_bombi... -> 2001: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_63_(2... 2006: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_pl... ... which is what we're discussing here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_repercussions_due_to_... 2009: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Airlines_Flight_253 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_t…

Literally none of these were foiled by the security circus we all have to go through. If anything, they are evidence that serious attempts are foiled by intelligence services long before the perpetrators get anywhere near an airport, and the others were just incompetent idiots.

Nonetheless, I hope you recognise that incompetent idiots beget more incompetent idiots, if they think they'll get away with it. You don't want e.g. a spate of bank robberies, by idiots who've heard that rubbing lemon juice on your face makes you invisible to cameras. It doesn't matter that they'll get obviously get caught, the problem is a spate of idiots attempting bank robberies (because they're filled with confidence they'll succeed) could easily get people killed.

I don't like security theatre either, and clearly the whole thing is a job creation program and an excuse for vendors to sell flashy scanner devices. But you need visible deterrents, even if most people know they're theatre.

They also act as reassurance for idiots who wouldn't fly otherwise. Idiots' money spends just as well as clever people's money, and there's a lot more idiots out there than clever people.

Because we live in a society with a free press, we have the chattering classes asking "what can we do about this threat?", and government is expected to respond. People don't like to hear from the politician "you're idiots, we don't need that, you are no less safe if we do nothing", they like to hear "we're doing XYZ to address this threat, how clever and wonderful you all are, dear citizens, for recognising it. Your safety is my top priority", then we get the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#533

Post by direwolf20 »

0x3f wrote: post #428
jeffwass wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in your own car dropping off your friends or family at a UK airport (at least the London ones) requires paying a £6 fee now. Just to get to the dropoff area, even for 30 seconds as you say. But hey, at least the luggage carts are free…

Right, but what do you think the alternative is? There is limited space close to the entrance of the terminal, it has to be rationed somehow. Also what happens in practice is people take advantage. A trust-based 30s wouldn't work. Even with the current fees you can hang around Heathrow drop off and see the police having to move people along, check unatended cars, etc.

There's limited space everywhere. It is rationed by people not wanting to be there. There's limited space at the baggage claim but nobody is charging you to be at the baggage claim.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#534

Post by ch4s3 »

cyberax wrote: post #68
ch4s3 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My real anger at airport screening is that we have found it possible to fund and implement this level of screening, at massive monetary, human and privacy cost, but I can't go to my doctor and for a few pennies (sorry, those don't exist now, how about for a few nickles?) get a body scan that does all the 3d segmentation, recognition, etc etc etc. We could actually save lives This always strikes me as a weird thing…

BS. Full body scans are amazing, and should be added to the normal health screening along with blood tests. Doctors need to get out of the headspace where an MRI is something reserved only to confirm the terminal cancer diagnosis. Pretty much all the supposed issues are solved by taking the second scan a couple months in the future.

I could dump loads of academic research on you about this topic, but it seems like you’re unwilling to engage.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#535

Post by 0x3f »

direwolf20 wrote: post #533
0x3f wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but what do you think the alternative is? There is limited space close to the entrance of the terminal, it has to be rationed somehow. Also what happens in practice is people take advantage. A trust-based 30s wouldn't work. Even with the current fees you can hang around Heathrow drop off and see the police having to move people along, check unatended cars, etc.

There's limited space everywhere. It is rationed by people not wanting to be there. There's limited space at the baggage claim but nobody is charging you to be at the baggage claim.

You think people don't want to drop off at the airport? There's literally a multi storey full of short term parking at every Heathrow terminal. They wouldn't fit in the drop off area at all.

You are charged to be at the baggage claim. The airline pays it on your behalf, from your fare.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#536

Post by insom »

Scoundreller wrote: post #441
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flew into the UK once with a small nerf pistol. Going in, no problem. Going out I was asked to remove it, lol.

Heathrow is annoying in that you need to go through security every time you change terminal (or enter one for the first time when arriving internationally). Had to go through security 4 times in a day due to a colossal fuck up by an airline. Each time they flagged something different on a different person. Still no idea what they were looking for in a purse 3 of 4 times. It’s wildly inconsistent and I kinda doubt it’…

The different Heathrow terminals have different security requirements. I suspect it’s based on countries they fly to from each terminal, but it could be age if equipment.

It is frustrating for security to act like you’re a total idiot for following a process another terminal says is fine (like leaving very small electronics like Kindles in your bag).

Oh, well.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#537

Post by altern8 »

vasco wrote: post #188
darth_avocado wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3-1-1 is rarely enforced. I always got confused why the 100ml limit existed, since I could just take multiple bottles of 100ml of whatever I wanted and it was okay. Then I realized that technically I only could take 3 bottles but I’ve been getting away with more for decades.

Then you hide them somewhere inside and go back out and in again

OR, you just have one or more accomplices ;-)

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#538

Post by 0x3f »

sho_hn wrote: post #433
0x3f wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does skin color have to do with this? It affects their perception of how risky you are, obviously. Accurate or not. In fact, security tech in China will openly classify you by race/ethnicity.

Of course according to the US government terrorists are now white US citizens, so you could say they have become more open-minded.

Yes, although the US is genuinely one of the least racist places in the world, that's more about how bad the rest of the world is.

In China the CCTV view just tags you up as Han/Uyghur/African/whatever. Nobody would even think twice about it.

There's not even a forum to discuss it, not because it upsets people to be confronted, it's just so casual and matter-of-fact it'd be strange to even talk about. Like of _course_ the Uyghurs are the dangerous ones.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#539

Post by eternauta3k »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #100
andai wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I flew thru Eindhoven Airport in the Netherlands a few years ago, and I couldn't believe they let me through with water. The security used something I would describe as out of an Iron Man film, they were zooming around a translucent 3D view of my backpack. (It was on an LCD display instead of hovering midair, but I was still impressed. But the fact they let me keep the water was even more amazing, hahah.)

You can do realtime 3D flythroughs on CT scans with open source viewers. If you've ever had one, get your DICOM data set and enjoy living in the future.

Can you recommend one? I've tried Aeskulap and Amide and I found it hard to get the 3D views to work.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#540

Post by Xmd5a »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #71

This just adds confusion as to the purpose of all this. The motivation behind the liquid limits is that there are extremely powerful explosives that are stable water-like liquids. Average people have never heard of them because they aren’t in popular lore. There has never been an industrial or military use, solids are simpler. Nonetheless, these explosives are easily accessible to a knowledgeable chemist like me. The…

Israel strips you naked and rubs the swipe between your legs thoroughly. Source: friend.
Post reply on HN