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Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

bbc.com

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Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#471

Post by kebman »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #375
James_K wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we to worry about train terrorism also? Shop terrorism? A person might bring a bomb to any crowded space, it simply is not practical to check all of them.

It's difficult to take down a skyscraper with a train. Yes, 'shop terrorism' can be a problem (see: the UK during the Troubles). I do agree with the implication that society must tolerate a certain amount of terrorism to avoid turning into a police state. That does not mean that airplane terrorism, without strict security, is so rare that we can ignore it.

This is probably a massive downvote waiting to happen, but I have more faith in 9/11 being a controlled demo. Not out of evil. Just to prevent New York turning into a giant domino show.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#472

Post by lesuorac »

abenga wrote: post #111
none2585 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an asinine take - it literally has nothing to do with the theater we deal with at the airports in America

What's the actual reason then?

There's 200 other people on the flight that think this plane is going to crash instead of thinking this plane is going to land safely and a ransom is going to occur.

Prior to 9/11 hijackings were rare but still occurred with everybody living [1]. There is a notable truncation in the list after 9/11 of incidents per decade (across the world; so nothing special about TSA).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings#19...

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#473

Post by angry_octet »

phgn wrote: post #337
michaelt wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airport prices in the UK for recreational travel work like so: Flight from London to Barcelona: £16 Bottle of water past security: £5 Train to airport: £26 Taxi enters drop-off area for 30 seconds: £7 A person who wants to get the advertised flight at the advertised price has to be very careful.

Take an empty, open water bottle through security and then fill it up at the free water fountains!

There is often no free water.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#474

Post by NL807 »

bleepblap wrote: post #83

there is actually a science change that happened, and it's not (entirely) just politicians changing their mind. The big thing going from X-ray (2d) to CT (spin an X-ray machine around and take a ton of pictures to recreate a 3d image) did a lot to let security people see inside of a bag, but the hitch is that if you see a blob of gray is that water, shampoo or something else? The recent advance that is letting this h…

These machines don't really detect what kind of materials stuff is composed of, much of that is just a crude classification based on density. True identification requires broadband x-rays emission with spectral analysis.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#475

Post by Ntrails »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #71

This just adds confusion as to the purpose of all this. The motivation behind the liquid limits is that there are extremely powerful explosives that are stable water-like liquids. Average people have never heard of them because they aren’t in popular lore. There has never been an industrial or military use, solids are simpler. Nonetheless, these explosives are easily accessible to a knowledgeable chemist like me. The…

Maybe I'm being naive, but it has always seemed pretty trivial to me to use the post-security shops to assemble something that will meaningfully damage the aircraft - so the whole thing smacked of theatre.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#476

Post by NL807 »

pelagicAustral wrote: post #445

If you think you had it bad all these years, you should come and visit the Falkland Islands. I will be brief, but I will explain what going through the Mount Pleasant Airport (MPN) feel like for the average visitor. For added context: Only one flight by a commercial airline a week on Saturday, comes in around 1300, departs around 1500. You miss it, you wait another week. - The terminal is extremely small, the plane t…

Dudes must be really bored there

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#477

Post by angry_octet »

kyralis wrote: post #197
aiisjustanif wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While still theatre to a degree, that was 11 years ago.

Do you have evidence that anything has changed?

In Europe you pay to go to the theatre. In the US you pay not to go to the theatre, they call it TSA PreCheck®.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#478

Post by yread »

flakeoil wrote: post #315
michaelt wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airport prices in the UK for recreational travel work like so: Flight from London to Barcelona: £16 Bottle of water past security: £5 Train to airport: £26 Taxi enters drop-off area for 30 seconds: £7 A person who wants to get the advertised flight at the advertised price has to be very careful.

On the other hand, one can also question if the £16 cost for the flight makes any sense. A more correct price would be £500. It's about time that the airlines pay the same taxes for fuel as everyone else.

I agree. A mandated minimal price per km.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#479

Post by dingdongditchme »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #357
dingdongditchme wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it has been such a godsend flying out of Frankfurt where they have the new scanners and you don't have to empty out your bag anymore. So much smoother. Then I fly back and get all annoyed at the other airports. I was told Oslo airport is holding out until it becomes regulation to use the new scanners. Security-Theater is still what it is. It is super weak imho, despite never having seriously attempted a heist or tryi…

Germany has a very sad and weak airport security story. The security personal are hired and paid by the state (Land), and thus the state plans their capacity and workflow. The airport owner (i.e. FRAport) has no say in their internal work organization, as it is basically contracted out policework. For whatever reason, most german Airports I regularly use, use the same machine and broken workflow: There is only a limi…

Interesting. I can only speak for FRAports Terminal A where the Lufthansa flights go and they use the new bag scanners where I just need to get rid of my coat and belt to be scanned by the infamous "Nacktscanner". The first time I went through I thought liquids were allowed from all airports in the EU until I found out it was bag scanner dependent. Smaller airports are usually OK because queues are short and then I have the time to walk TSA through each individual item personally. FRAport has started adopting the "snake-through-duty-free" before the gate (pioneered by Stansted as far as I can tell) which is criminal in my opinion (it's not as bad as Stansted yet). Commercial workflows are thus not always better when the optimize time customer has to spend "not buying" overpriced meals and consumer garbage.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#480

Post by palata »

regularfry wrote: post #358
palata wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW, I once went through an airport in my travels that took an infrared spectra of everyone’s water! They never said that, I recognized the equipment. I forget where, I was just impressed that the process was scientifically rigorous. That would immediately identify anything weird that was passed off as water. Something like 10 years ago, I had my water checked in a specialised "bottle of water checker" equipment i…

Cynically, it's so they can sell you another bottle on the secure side. If they spend money to give themselves a working mechanism to distinguish water from not-water, they lose the ability to create retail demand.

I understand the idea, but it's not completely true: I empty my bottle before the security check, and fill it after in a fountain.
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