I've lived in France 12 years and run a web consultancy in Paris. The government is completely out to lunch - and I feel the international media has not covered this story sufficiently. Unemployment is going to rise, investment will drop and extreme political movements are going to become even more popular.
French tax on startups
41–50 of 59 posts
Re: French tax on startups
#42France is destroying its future wealth and its destroying it fast. It's already one of the country with the most obstacles when you want to create a business: there are laws at basically every "level of power" and because it's one of the most socialist country of the planet (despite them always saying neo-liberal are supposedly in power) there are a great many level of powers. It's mad. Consider yourself lucky if you…
I agree with martinced completely.
I've spent 12 years in Paris working on the web. Before that I spent 9 years in Russia - I know propaganda and lies. The French government is incompetent and dishonest.
Why do I write this? Because it's in all of our interest here in France that the rest of world know. These buffoons want to be taken seriously on the world stage, like Chernenko and Brezhnev. No reason to allow that to happen.
Re: French tax on startups
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hearing all that, one could imagine that in countries like France, with >30% corporate tax and high employment cost, no business can take place at all, and it must have fallen in a deep economic depression a long time ago. That is generally the case. Unemployment rates in the 8-12 neighborhood are considered a disaster in the US. In France they are normal. France is as poor as Arkansas and Idaho, two of the poorest U…
France is not (much) different from other comparable countries in Europe on the quoted measure (i.e. Germany, UK and Italy are equally "as poor" as Arkansas and Idaho, using GDP-PPP/inhabitant). So it most likely doesn't have much to do with the original statement, given that Germany has e.g. a much lower unemployment. I am not sure per-state comparison of GDP-PPP per capita are really that meaningful: you would most…
Start with a very rich country - a former superpower that fought with its rival for world domination. I'm not talking about USA and USSR but France and England.
The #1 spots comes with lot of advantages like accumulated wealth, educated workforce, etc.
Now start to introduce socialist reforms - little by little, and watch the country bleed itself out while its voters supports this self destructive streak being proud of the equality they are achieving.
This "equality" makes me think of thermodynamics. Yes they are increasing entropy, destroying the country.
It can be achieved in a small amount of time (Zimbabwe managed to turn itself from very rich to very poor in a record amount of time!) or a long time - as France is showing.
At the moment, France can only take advantage of the size of its economy as a refuge in the eurozone for those who don't want to put all their eggs in Germany
If France keep destroying its economy that way (or if say the UK gets in the eurozone) the end of the ride is near.
[I wonder if it will need food help to fight famine, like Zimbabwe, after after being a net food exporter]
Re: French tax on startups
#44France is destroying its future wealth and its destroying it fast. It's already one of the country with the most obstacles when you want to create a business: there are laws at basically every "level of power" and because it's one of the most socialist country of the planet (despite them always saying neo-liberal are supposedly in power) there are a great many level of powers. It's mad. Consider yourself lucky if you…
Please stop this political propaganda on HN. There are valid reason to criticize this law without trying to damage France ("Flee France" as you say ...) Don't call everything you don't like "socialist". It's as ridiculous as when French left-wing socialists call everything they don't like "libéral". And don't mix Spain and Greece : - Greece has a completely corrupt government for years (and not only socialist governm…
It's not "damaging" to France to say that the country is run by dishonest incompetents. France is a wonderful, beautiful country - any visitor can see that it in a few hours. But if a government is lowering people's incomes and increasing unemployment, we have a right as rational people to say as much as we can about it.
Re: French tax on startups
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah the new 75% income tax bracket in France really is putting the Laffer curve theory to the test. Will be very interesting to see how it pans out. I'm sure socialist governments elsewhere in Europe is following this grand experiment closely.
US had a 92% tax rate for a few years and 70%+ during our great economic expansion after WWII, which was highest GDP grow in our history. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Doc...
Almost the entire economic expansion after WWII came from the middel class. The rates you link to are referring to the top marginal rate which do not affect the middle class.
There is also a rather important paragraph at the bottom that I think you missed.
> "This table contains a number of simplifications and ignores a number of factors, such as a maximum tax on earned income of 50 percent when the top rate was 70 percent and the current increase in rates due to income-related reductions in value of itemized deductions. Perhaps most importantly it ignores the large increases in percentage of returns that were subject to the top rate".
The US tax code is so complicated you can't just look at some percentage and come to any sort of accurate conclusion. I would say the main factor in how much a given person pays in taxes depends mostly on their accountant.
You should also take into account most of the world was in shambles was when the war ended which gave the US a huge economic advantage.
Re: French tax on startups
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please stop this political propaganda on HN. There are valid reason to criticize this law without trying to damage France ("Flee France" as you say ...) Don't call everything you don't like "socialist". It's as ridiculous as when French left-wing socialists call everything they don't like "libéral". And don't mix Spain and Greece : - Greece has a completely corrupt government for years (and not only socialist governm…
It's not "damaging" to France to say that the country is run by dishonest incompetents. France is a wonderful, beautiful country - any visitor can see that it in a few hours. But if a government is lowering people's incomes and increasing unemployment, we have a right as rational people to say as much as we can about it.
'martinced' doesn't say that the country is "runned by dishonest incompetents". He says :
- "leave your country"
- "Flee France. That country doesn't deserves you"
- "it's one of the most socialist country of the planet"
He use the word 'socialist' everywhere and in a meaningless ways.
We can perfectly have a rational talk about the problem with this law without all this nonsense.
Re: French tax on startups
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not "damaging" to France to say that the country is run by dishonest incompetents. France is a wonderful, beautiful country - any visitor can see that it in a few hours. But if a government is lowering people's incomes and increasing unemployment, we have a right as rational people to say as much as we can about it.
'martinced' doesn't say that the country is "runned by dishonest incompetents". He says : - "leave your country" - "Flee France. That country doesn't deserves you" - "it's one of the most socialist country of the planet" He use the word 'socialist' everywhere and in a meaningless ways. We can perfectly have a rational talk about the problem with this law without all this nonsense.
Are you here Rexxar (in France)?
Re: French tax on startups
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not "damaging" to France to say that the country is run by dishonest incompetents. France is a wonderful, beautiful country - any visitor can see that it in a few hours. But if a government is lowering people's incomes and increasing unemployment, we have a right as rational people to say as much as we can about it.
'martinced' doesn't say that the country is "runned by dishonest incompetents". He says : - "leave your country" - "Flee France. That country doesn't deserves you" - "it's one of the most socialist country of the planet" He use the word 'socialist' everywhere and in a meaningless ways. We can perfectly have a rational talk about the problem with this law without all this nonsense.
How is 'socialist' used in meaningless ways? Socialist in 2012 means someone who believes that wealth should be distributed from wealth-creators to the public sector, with the result that the country as whole grows more slowly than it should. Maybe you are thinking about what "socialism" originally meant, or what it "should" mean. Socialism has been defined by history.
Re: French tax on startups
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hearing all that, one could imagine that in countries like France, with >30% corporate tax and high employment cost, no business can take place at all, and it must have fallen in a deep economic depression a long time ago. That is generally the case. Unemployment rates in the 8-12 neighborhood are considered a disaster in the US. In France they are normal. France is as poor as Arkansas and Idaho, two of the poorest U…
"That is generally the case. Unemployment rates in the 8-12 neighborhood are considered a disaster in the US. In France they are normal." Except that the way the unemployment rate is calculated is different in both countries, economists say that you should add 3 or 4% to the American unemployment rate to have comparable numbers.
According to a quick look at Wikipedia, the only apparent difference is that Eurostat requires an unemployed person to be able to start work in the next two weeks, while the US BLS requires an unemployed person to have been able to start work last week.
Is it your belief that the difference between "are you able to start work in the next two weeks" and "if a job were offered, could you have started work last week" is 3-4%?
Re: French tax on startups
#50I'm tired of this BS being spread by ppl who didn't even read the finances law in question (at least bullet points). It's not true, the 60% tax rate comes from the creation of a new bracket in the income tax and the treatment of selling your startup as income. To attain 60% you 1) need to sell for more than 150k 2) count all the acquisition money as instant revenue 3) do not intend to invest. And in fact, you have de…
Let's be clear: I'm not agreeing with the government's policy (at least it's now not blatantly racist): I'm not agreeing with everything in the proposed tax scheme, I'm not agreeing with the entirety of the distribution of the spending, and I'm not agreeing with their lack on direction. I'm also not agreeing on bullshit being spread by a group of clueless persons on Facebook and being spread by rudebaguette and the l…
Thanks Gabriel Synnaeve for the great comment - it's a great example in how it's always cool to be for something, as long as you clarify that your not for it "the same way everyone else is."
The "bullshit" that we spread on Rude Baguette cites sources, so if you have a problem with the way they're being talked about, that's called a "spin." We also wrote that "bullshit" about 36 hours after the creation of the #geonpi fan page, because we felt the "bullshit" was worth talking about.
I don't think the blogger her, who also write for RB, is calling himself a "journalist," writing in the blog of his startup's website - at best he's expressing his opinion.
PS: ending a comment with "/rant" doesn't make it any more justified - although thanks for clarifying that it was written with no forethought, afterthough, or thought at all.
Yours Rudely,
-Liam Boogar Editor @ The Rude Baguette