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Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

bbc.com

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Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#341

Post by drob518 »

throwaway290 wrote: post #211
bruce511 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gotta love the TSA. They serve no real purpose, but its a monster too big to kill, staffed by people who desperately cling to the notion they're doing something important. They don't stop hijackings (locking the cockpit door does that), they don't stop bombings (there are much better targets for that, which don't involve killing the bomber), they don't stop weapons (lots of airports outside the US have simple met…

> they don't stop weapons (lots of airports outside the US have simple metal detectors for that.) There are 3D printed guns.

You still need metal parts, notably a gun barrel capable of holding extreme pressures until the bullet gets up to speed. That isn’t plastic. The grip and frame might be plastic, but not the barrel.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#342

Post by galuggus »

rudhdb773b wrote: post #160
ekianjo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Declarations are meaningless. This will not prevent fires ot occur.

Are battery fires on planes a common problem? I haven't heard of many, at least with any significant consequences. And what would you suggest be done to reduce the risk? Asking passengers to travel without phones or laptops isn't realistic.

there was a viral video of one recently. i think thats what sparked the measures. the declaration is probably so if they find one in your luggage they can ban you from flying

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#343

Post by sfn42 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #294
kleiba wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This can be traced to people in a car believe they can control whether they have an accident or not (and largely can). This is true. In France, about two thirds out of the people dying in a car accident are the actual drivers responsible for the accident, according to the 2024 Road Safety Report.

"largely" is true, but because planes are more than 3x safer people are still being wrong when they fear plane travel. People try to treat "largely" as "fully" and that fails.

It's not about statistics. It's about control and knowledge. I know if a car I'm in is driving safely. I can ask the driver to calm down or let me off. In a plane I have nothing. I'm just sitting in a tin can, no idea whether the pilot is flying responsibly or not. No idea whether the landing is routine as hell or kinda sketch. Even if i could talk to the pilot the only thing we can do is land.

And have you thought about airplane landing? It's insane. This big clunky metal bird full of literal jet fuel coming in at like 400kmh or whatever, bouncing around on the tarmac as it's desperately trying to regain control and slow down.

Honestly I don't see how a rational person could not be stressed out in that situation. Yes we all know it usually works out, but we also know if it doesn't work out we're very likely going up in a ball of fire. And no matter what the stats say it doesn't feel like a safe situation. It feels like a near death experience. Seriously. Every time I fly I mentally come to terms with the fact that I might die. Every time we take off and land I'm feeling the bumps and jerks, listening to the sounds and wondering whether this is normal.

I fly at least a few times a year, and I don't take any drugs for it, but I fucking hate it.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#345

Post by imcritic »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #303
fc417fc802 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting to contrast this with my experience flying out of China. I was taken to a private room and shown the digital colored X-ray of my bag on which a box had been drawn around an empty lighter, I was asked to remove it myself and hand it over, and I went on my way. All in under 5 minutes, no pat down, no fuss, and no one physically rifled through my belongings. (Granted I was a tourist so that might w…

Once at a security checkpoint to a museum in Shanghai, they saw my water bottle, and then told me to take it out and drink from it.

Was it just you? Or do they apply the same policy for every visitor with a bottle of liquid?

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#346

Post by grumbelbart2 »

KingMob wrote: post #290
breppp wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most of airport security rests on the notion of going over a series of long tests will elicit unusual (fear, stress) responses from malicious actors and these can then be flagged for even thorougher checks which will then eventually lead to discovery, banning or removal of luggage so it's not the test accuracy by itself but rather then the fact that these tests are happening at all

This kind of thinking is as legitimate as believing lie detectors work, i.e., not at all.

Israel is using those methods in their airport security, quite successfully given their threat level. The problem is that it does not scale well and requires very well trained and attentive personnel.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#347

Post by croisillon »

davedx wrote: post #249
jandrewrogers wrote: post #71

This just adds confusion as to the purpose of all this. The motivation behind the liquid limits is that there are extremely powerful explosives that are stable water-like liquids. Average people have never heard of them because they aren’t in popular lore. There has never been an industrial or military use, solids are simpler. Nonetheless, these explosives are easily accessible to a knowledgeable chemist like me. The…

On one hand, I think it's a valid criticism to say it's security theatre, to a degree . After 9/11, something had to be done, fast! , and we're still living with the after effects of that. On the other hand: defence in depth. No security screening is perfect. Plastic guns can get through metal detectors but we still use them. Pat downs at nightclubs won't catch a razor blade concealed in someone's bra. We try to catc…

to nitpick, the 100ml rule doesn't come from 9/11 but from 2006 attack attempts

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#348

Post by KaiserPro »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #71

This just adds confusion as to the purpose of all this. The motivation behind the liquid limits is that there are extremely powerful explosives that are stable water-like liquids. Average people have never heard of them because they aren’t in popular lore. There has never been an industrial or military use, solids are simpler. Nonetheless, these explosives are easily accessible to a knowledgeable chemist like me. The…

> extremely powerful explosives that are stable water-like liquids.

My understanding is that those are detected by the bag swabs.

I _thought_ that this was to stop people mixing their own explosives _on_ the plane? There was a whole court case in the UK about how people had smuggled it onboard and then were going to make it in the toilet.

They would need and ice bath, which is somewhat impractical.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#349

Post by n4r9 »

Halan wrote: post #344

How is this news? A lot of airports in Europe had had this for years and even in England there were terminals within the major hubs where this was already the norm

Heathrow is by far the largest airport in the UK, with several times more flights per day than any other, and flights to a broader range of destinations. So it affects a lot more prospective fliers. I looked up European airports and found some mention that Rome and Milan also have this new equipment, but they're both still significantly smaller than Heathrow.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#350

Post by bjackman »

JasonADrury wrote: post #165
edm0nd wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. In the US, the TSA is just a government jobs program for the lowly skilled or unskilled. It's all security theater. TSA Chief Out After Agents Fail 95 Percent of Airport Breach Tests "In one case, an alarm sounded, but even during a pat-down, the screening officer failed to detect a fake plastic explosive taped to an undercover agent's back. In all, so-called "Red Teams" of Homeland Security agents posing as…

I routinely conceal large bottles of liquids on my person while going through airport security. I've probably gone through airport security in various places with a 1.5L bottle of water more than a hundred times now. Haven't been caught once, although of course the US-style scanners could presumably defeat this. Same with hot sauces, perfume and the occasional bottles of wine. I really don't like to travel with a che…

Yeah I also regularly bring a razorblade (for my old fashioned safety razor). I have got caught once but it's worth the risk of wasting a few minutes.

If this was really about security, it would be set up so that just deliberately breaking the rules for the sake of minor convenience actually had some consequences.

If I wanted to blow up a plane with liquid explosives I would just... Try a few times. If you get caught, throw the bottle away, get on the plane, and try again next week.

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