Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 839 posts

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#261

Post by gambiting »

opello wrote: post #238
CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how does that explain I can take 10 100ml bottles and an empty 1l bottle through security but not 1 full 1l bottle?

You have to be able to fit those 10 100mL bottles into a single 1 quart resealable bag. At most you'd probably get about 9.46 of those 10 bottles in the bag but in practice it's fewer still. 1 US liquid quart is about 946.353 milliliters.

>>1 US liquid quart is about 946.353 milliliters.

Why not just say 1 litre and have the same limit as the rest of the world.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#262

Post by walthamstow »

Muromec wrote: post #240
closewith wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't protect against an opponent who's motivated to learn the inherent vulnerabilities of our systems, many of which can't be protected against due to the laws of physics and practicality - short of forcing everyone to travel naked and strapped in like cattle, with no luggage. And even then, what about the extremist who works for the airline? This is said as an axiom, but we have protected against the motivate…

Mitivated terrorists pivoted to driving cars into crowds and shootings.

Don't forget strapping knives to their hands and slashing into crowds.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#263

Post by altern8 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #71

This just adds confusion as to the purpose of all this. The motivation behind the liquid limits is that there are extremely powerful explosives that are stable water-like liquids. Average people have never heard of them because they aren’t in popular lore. There has never been an industrial or military use, solids are simpler. Nonetheless, these explosives are easily accessible to a knowledgeable chemist like me. The…

I'm fine with some liquid potentially being explosives, but the fact that security just throws them all in the same bin when they confiscate them makes me think that not even they believe it makes any sense.

Also, why 100ml? Do you need 150ml to make the explosive? Couldn't there be 2 terrorists with 100ml + 50ml? All these questions, so little answers...

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#265

Post by wakawaka28 »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #250
edm0nd wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. In the US, the TSA is just a government jobs program for the lowly skilled or unskilled. It's all security theater. TSA Chief Out After Agents Fail 95 Percent of Airport Breach Tests "In one case, an alarm sounded, but even during a pat-down, the screening officer failed to detect a fake plastic explosive taped to an undercover agent's back. In all, so-called "Red Teams" of Homeland Security agents posing as…

I find it interesting to contrast this with my experience flying out of China. I was taken to a private room and shown the digital colored X-ray of my bag on which a box had been drawn around an empty lighter, I was asked to remove it myself and hand it over, and I went on my way. All in under 5 minutes, no pat down, no fuss, and no one physically rifled through my belongings. (Granted I was a tourist so that might w…

A lighter is very different from a weapon. I'm sure they can see everything they need to see with X-rays. Do you think they find a white guy flying out of China to be a likely terrorist? (I'm assuming you are white or asian.)

I've never had a bad experience with TSA but I hate taking off my shoes and all. I really question the value of those security measures.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#266

Post by alexfoo »

chillacy wrote: post #196
stanislavb wrote: post #4

Good. This should happen on all airports now. Otherwise it's useless. You won't be flying from Heathrow to Heathrow.

Hmm, I once transited in Heathrow in a return flight from europe to the US and had to go through Heathrow security for whatever reason, where they subjected me to liquids rules way stricter than either my source or destination did. E.g. 1 day use contact lenses and prescription creams all having to fit in a tiny plastic bag. So I'm happy for this change.

> Hmm, I once transited in Heathrow in a return flight from europe to the US and had to go through Heathrow security for whatever reason,

The US mandates that you have to go through TSA approved security before getting on a flight to the US.

Either the security at your European airport wasn't good enough, or the transit at Heathrow allowed you to access to things that invalidated the previous security screening and so it had to be done again.

The bonus is that if you get to go through US Immigration at the departure airport then you can often land at domestic terminals in the US and the arrivals experience is far less tortuous. I flew to the US with a transit in Ireland a few times and it was so much nicer using the dead time before the Ireland -> US flight to clear immigration rather than spending anything from 15 minutes to 4 hours in a queue at the arrival airport in the US (all depending on which other flights arrived just before yours).

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#267

Post by wedog6 »

breppp wrote: post #181
jandrewrogers wrote: post #71

This just adds confusion as to the purpose of all this. The motivation behind the liquid limits is that there are extremely powerful explosives that are stable water-like liquids. Average people have never heard of them because they aren’t in popular lore. There has never been an industrial or military use, solids are simpler. Nonetheless, these explosives are easily accessible to a knowledgeable chemist like me. The…

most of airport security rests on the notion of going over a series of long tests will elicit unusual (fear, stress) responses from malicious actors and these can then be flagged for even thorougher checks which will then eventually lead to discovery, banning or removal of luggage so it's not the test accuracy by itself but rather then the fact that these tests are happening at all

You have surprising faith that the system is well designed.

Malicious actors don't get as stressed as normal people who don't want to miss their flight about the long series of obviously pointless tests. Why would they?

And there isn't anyone who surveils the queues and takes the worried looking for further checks. This can happen around immigration checks. It happens for flights to Israel. But not in routine airport security.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#268

Post by Fervicus »

lagniappe wrote: post #246
Fervicus wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we don't have intense security checks at concerts, trains, or at marathon events as a result, do we?

I don't know where you live, but where I live, we do.

I've traveled all over Europe and North America and have taken a lot of trains. Not once did I have to remove my shoe, scan my baggage, or had any kind of liquid restrictions.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#269

Post by jacobp100 »

stevage wrote: post #62
jonah wrote: post #21

We transited through LHR yesterday. Still had to go through security - not sure why since we stayed on the air side. Anyway, signage required us to empty our refillable water bottles. Odd. Thankfully we eventually found a refill station. The scanners flagged a still sealed can of ginger ale left over from our incoming flight. It was "fine" but she still swabbed it. Shrug.

It's super frustrating losing the contents of your water bottle and then having nowhere at all that you can refill it.

I think all UK airports have easy to find water bottle refill stations

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#270

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #71

This just adds confusion as to the purpose of all this. The motivation behind the liquid limits is that there are extremely powerful explosives that are stable water-like liquids. Average people have never heard of them because they aren’t in popular lore. There has never been an industrial or military use, solids are simpler. Nonetheless, these explosives are easily accessible to a knowledgeable chemist like me. The…

> These explosives can be detected via infrared spectroscopy but that isn’t going to be happening to liquids in your bag

There are more ways to find them. Look up Z score. TL; DR New detectors can discriminate water from explosives. Old ones couldn’t. None of them are doing IR spectroscopy.

Post reply on HN