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I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

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Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#81

Health metrics are absolutely tarnished by a lack of proper context. Unsurprisingly, it turns out that you can't reliably take a concept as broad as health and reduce it to a number. We see the same arguments over and over with body fat percentages, vo2 max estimates, BMI, lactate thresholds, resting heart rate, HRV, and more. These are all useful metrics, but it's important to consider them in the proper context tha…

>I'd go so far to say this is probably the case for most people. Your average person is in really poor fitness-shape but just fine health-shape. Modern medicine has failed to move into the era of subtlety and small problems and many people suffer as a result. Fitness nerds and general non-scientists fill the gap poorly so we get a ton of guessing and anecdotal evidence and likely a whole lot of bad advice. Doctors wo…

A worthwhile book to read on this topic is Outlive by Peter Attia (MD). The core premise is that American healthcare focuses far too much on treating problems after they’re extremely severe. It is would be cheaper and healthier to invest more into conservative & preventative care, trying to prevent or minimize problems early in life before they become incredibly dangerous and expensive/difficult/impossible to treat.

I have a close friend who works in conservative care, and it’s astonishing what they see. For example, someone went to a number of specialists and doctors about a throat condition where they really struggled swallowing. They even had to swallow a radioactive pill to do some kind of imaging. Unnecessary exposure, and an expensive process to go through, and ultimately went exactly nowhere.

Meanwhile, it was a simple musculoskeletal issue which my friend was able to resolve in a single visit with absolutely no risk to the patient.

Medical schools need to stop producing MDs who reach for pills as the first line of defense without trying to root cause issues. Do you really need addictive pain killers, or maybe some PT, exercise, massage, etc. to help resolve your pain.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, i had some pain in my chest... RUQ (right upper quadrant for those medical folk). On the way to the hospital, ChatGPT was pretty confident it was a issue with my gallbladder due to me having a fatty meal for lunch (but it was delicious). After an extended wait time to be seen, they didnt ask about anything like that, and at the end they were like anything else to add, added it in about ChatGPT / Gal…

This reminds me of another recent comment in some other post, about doctors not diagnosing "hard to diagnose" things. There are probably ("good") reasons for this. But your own persistence, and today the help of AI, can potentially help you. The problem with it is the same problem as previously: "charlatans". Just that today the charlatan and the savior are both one and the same: The AI. I do recognize that most peop…

Interesting to read, thank you very much. Are you still eating ketogenic? The bacillus subtilis seems to metabolize glucose, so are yours still alive? And did you try other probiotica beforehand? I am having HIT and eating a mostly carnivore diet with mostly fresh/unfermented meat.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#83
post #35

A year or so ago, I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis. Even after a lot of back and forth it stuck to its guns. We went to a specialist who performed some additional tests and explained that the condition cannot be diagnosed with just the original blood work and said that she did not have the condition. The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm…

> I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis I don't get it... a doctor ordered the blood work, right? And surely they did not have this opinion or you would have been sent to a specialist right away. In this case, the GP who ordered the blood work was the gatekeeper. Shouldn't they have been the person to deal with this inquiry in the first place? I would be a lot mo…

At least in Poland, I can almost always see my results before my doctor does - I get a notification that the labwork is ready and I can view results online.

Also, the regular bloodwork is around $50-$100 (for noninsured or without a prescription), so many people just do this out of pocket once in a while and only bring to doctor if anything looks suspicious.

Finally, there is EU regulation about data that applies to medical field as well - you always have the right to view all the data that any company has stored about you. Gatekeeping is forbidden by law.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#84
For every sensational article of AI was useless, there is plenty of examples where using ChatGPT to find out what else could be happening and then having a conversation with doctor has helped many that I know of anecdotally and many such reports online as well.

At the end of the day, it’s yet another tool that people can use to help their lives. They have to use their brain. The culture of seeing doctor as a god doesn’t hold up anymore. So many people have had bad experiences when the entire health care industry at least in US is primarily a business than helping society get healthy.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#85
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is irresponsible for these companies I would claim that ignoring the "ChatGPT is AI and can make mistakes. Check important info." text, right under the query they type in client, is clearly more irresponsible. I think that a disclaimer like that is the most useful and reasonable approach for AI. "Here's a tool, and it's sometimes wrong." means the public can have access to LLMs and AI. The alternative, that you…

Why are you assuming that the general public ought to have access to imperfect tools? I live in a place where getting a blood test requires a referral from a doctor, who is also required to discuss the results with you.

> I live in a place where getting a blood test requires a referral from a doctor, who is also required to discuss the results with you.

You’re saying it like it’s a good thing.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, i had some pain in my chest... RUQ (right upper quadrant for those medical folk). On the way to the hospital, ChatGPT was pretty confident it was a issue with my gallbladder due to me having a fatty meal for lunch (but it was delicious). After an extended wait time to be seen, they didnt ask about anything like that, and at the end they were like anything else to add, added it in about ChatGPT / Gal…

This reminds me of another recent comment in some other post, about doctors not diagnosing "hard to diagnose" things. There are probably ("good") reasons for this. But your own persistence, and today the help of AI, can potentially help you. The problem with it is the same problem as previously: "charlatans". Just that today the charlatan and the savior are both one and the same: The AI. I do recognize that most peop…

It's horses not zebras until it's actually a zebra and your life depends on it. I think those sorts of guidelines are useful in the general case. But many medical issues quickly move beyond the general case and need closer examination. Not sure how you do that effectively without wasting tons of money on folks with indigestion.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#87

A year or so ago, I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis. Even after a lot of back and forth it stuck to its guns. We went to a specialist who performed some additional tests and explained that the condition cannot be diagnosed with just the original blood work and said that she did not have the condition. The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm…

> it stuck to its guns It gave you a probabilistic output. There were no guns and nothing to stick to. If you had disrupted the context with enough countervailing opinion it would have "relented" simply because the conversational probabilities changed.

I was amused but not impressed when I was able to convince Claude Code that it was useless and absolutely not a service worth paying for. It literally apologized and recommended I ask for a refund. I mean, I still get lots of value from CC. Just that it's easy to push them into whatever corner you want.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#88
post #15

The author is a healthy person but the computer program still gave him a failing grade of F. It is irresponsible for these companies to release broken tools that can cause so much fear in real people. They are treating serious medical advice like it is just a video game or a toy. Real users should not be the ones testing these dangerous products.

> It is irresponsible for these companies I would claim that ignoring the "ChatGPT is AI and can make mistakes. Check important info." text, right under the query they type in client, is clearly more irresponsible. I think that a disclaimer like that is the most useful and reasonable approach for AI. "Here's a tool, and it's sometimes wrong." means the public can have access to LLMs and AI. The alternative, that you…

The problem is that AI companies are selling, advertising, and shipping AI as a tool that works most of the time for what you ask it to do. That’s deeply misleading.

The product itself is telling you in plain English that it’s ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN about its answer… even when you challenge it and try to rebut it. And the text of the product itself is much more prominent than the little asterisk “oh no, it’s actually lying because the LLM can never be that certain.” That’s clearly not a responsible product.

I opened the ChatGPT app right now and there is literally nothing about double checking results. It just says “ask anything,” in no uncertain terms, with no fine print.

Here’s a recent ad from OpenAI: https://youtu.be/uZ_BMwB647A, and I quote “Using ChatGPT allowed us to really feel like we have the facts and our doctor is giving us his expertise, his experience, his gut instinct” related to a severe health question.

And another recent ad related to analyzing medical scans: “What’s wonderful about ChatGPT is that it can be that cumulative source of information, so that we can make the best choices.” (https://youtu.be/rXuKh4e6gw4)

And yet another recent ad, where lots of users are using ChatGPT to get authoritative answers to health questions. They even say you can take a picture of a meal before you eat and after you eat, and have it generate the amount of calories you ate! Just based on the difference between the pictures! How has that been tested and verified? (https://youtu.be/305lqu-fmbg)

Now, some of the ads have users talking to their doctors, which is great.

But they are clearly marketing ChatGPT as the tool to use if you want to arrive at the truth. No asterisks. No “but sometimes it’s wrong and you won’t be able to tell.” There’s nothing to misunderstand about these ads: OpenAI is telling you that ChatGPT is trustworthy.

So I reject the premise that it’s the user’s fault for not using enough caution with these tools. OpenAI is practically begging you to jump in and use it for personal, life or death type decisions, and does very little to help you understand when it may be wrong.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#89

Health metrics are absolutely tarnished by a lack of proper context. Unsurprisingly, it turns out that you can't reliably take a concept as broad as health and reduce it to a number. We see the same arguments over and over with body fat percentages, vo2 max estimates, BMI, lactate thresholds, resting heart rate, HRV, and more. These are all useful metrics, but it's important to consider them in the proper context tha…

>I'd go so far to say this is probably the case for most people. Your average person is in really poor fitness-shape but just fine health-shape. Modern medicine has failed to move into the era of subtlety and small problems and many people suffer as a result. Fitness nerds and general non-scientists fill the gap poorly so we get a ton of guessing and anecdotal evidence and likely a whole lot of bad advice. Doctors wo…

Maybe I'm not getting you right, but IMO it hasn't? I, as a customer/patient, just don't weekly converse with my MD about small issues, and frankly, they have better things to do, for example treating sick people.

Instead I use the health benefits programs of my health care insurer. My insurer has an interest in prevention, so I can get consulting for free (or very low fees), and even kickbacks if I regularly participate in fitness courses and maintain my yearly check-up routine. Now, I live in Germany and it probably is different in other countries, but it just makes economic sense from the insurer's point of view so that I would be surprised if it were very different elsewhere.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#90

My general take on any AI/ML in medicine is that without a proper clinical validation, they are not worth to try. Also, AI Snake Oil is worth reading.

Clinical validation, proper calibration, ethnic and community and population variants, questioning technique and more ...
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