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Yes, It's Fascism

theatlantic.com

321–330 of 439 posts

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#321

If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance, not political in form — test-fitting an imprecise definition. The fact it also reaches a firm conclusion (spoiler alert right there in the title) is depoliticized by allowing for malleable application. A benchmark article I will now go share elsewhere. What’s left to talk about? How to react…

It's nice but also endlessly frustrating and very very late, because what he regards as overuse of the term is really just people who were applying the term correctly for the past 10 years as people like the author refused to call a spade a spade. If the nascent fascist were discarded, people would have stopped saying it so much. The problem for people like the author is that other more astute individuals [1] correct…

> The correct framing is that the first insurrection succeeded

If you redefine success to whatever you want, then sure.

> In 2029 every Republican will go along with plan A

If you treat people as enemies, they’ll become one. The arrogance in the assumption that every Republican will allow Trump to get elected for a 3rd term might spite them into it.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#322
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could publish hashes of the flaggers' usernames rather than the usernames themselves. The point is not to go on witch hunts--it's to stop the endless discussions and questioning around whether what we are all seeing ( certain topics always seeming to disappear quickly) is the result of flagging activity that is evenly distributed across the site or coming from a relative handful of brigaders.

Everything I know about internet dynamics and human nature tells me that that wouldn't work—it would just exacerbate the conflict. The problems we're talking about come from the fundamentals: how HN is defined (i.e. its mandate), how the site is structured (one front page that everyone shares, only 30 stories per page, etc.), how people feel, and what's going on in the world at large. Given those fundamentals, these…

Thanks. Ultimately, as users, we need to trust that you guys are taking the right actions to defend against what appears from our point of view to be a sustained and coordinated cyber attack on the website. I hope I speak for a lot of my fellow users, that we trust it is being treated with the seriousness that you'd treat any other security vulnerability.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#323
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've replied before I even had a chance to add a second sentence! Edit: admittedly it is taking longer than usual... I've answered that point many times, e.g. recently here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46378818 . If you take a look at that and have a question that isn't answered there (or here), I'd be happy to take a crack at it. I haven't had a chance to look at the flaggers of these recent stories to ve…

[flagged]

>I flag them because they're trying to establish the use of a highly subjective and derogatory term as fact.

Fascism isn't a subjective matter. We have loads of definition and the article makes a serious argument. If the quality of the article matches the subject matter, it's not flag worthy.

That's why I don't flag on ideology. I flag based on if 1) this inspires curiosity and 2) does not inspire hate (which is usually built into 1. You can't be curious of your biases are clouded by prejudice).

>or because I point out the legal basis for justifying an LEO's use of lethal force, etc.

There's a time and place. I'm very critical of Charlie Kirk, bit I gave it a week before o really went full hog on my tjoughts and actions. I have to look it back up, but I believe here I left it at "no one should be assassinated for their thoughts, even if those thoughts don't follow the golden rule" and left it at that.

Now, months later I will happily say that it quite the coincidence that so many Kirk articles here weren't flag while calling the situation what it is still gets flagged.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#324
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“weak men create hard times” never fails

Who are the “weak men” in your interpretation of today’s scenario? I have my own ideas but I wonder about others.

the cynical people that thought they could lives as islands outside of politics and did not care to engage with anything outside of their interests. this should acknowledge the people that constructed this environment by undermining education, pushing falsehoods, corporatists blocking real change, etc. i suppose you could consider lack of any issue unifying the nation as before with WWII, the Cold War - if it's the end of history and peace/globalization is assured then you can tune out. i.e. it's about the dull invisible work of maintaining standards that keep the system from collapsing and a shared narrative, one people don't feel like exists with all the corruption, nepotism, transgresses from people in power and lack of action on global issues.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#325
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could publish hashes of the flaggers' usernames rather than the usernames themselves. The point is not to go on witch hunts--it's to stop the endless discussions and questioning around whether what we are all seeing ( certain topics always seeming to disappear quickly) is the result of flagging activity that is evenly distributed across the site or coming from a relative handful of brigaders.

Everything I know about internet dynamics and human nature tells me that that wouldn't work—it would just exacerbate the conflict. The problems we're talking about come from the fundamentals: how HN is defined (i.e. its mandate), how the site is structured (one front page that everyone shares, only 30 stories per page, etc.), how people feel, and what's going on in the world at large. Given those fundamentals, these…

I understand what you are talking about but trust me when I say this that HN users are genuinely really really frustrated about current flag situation of HN.

Please don't just say that the system is as is and no change can be upgraded.

I feel so frustrated at times whenever I comment in posts and I am observing a lot of the articles themselves getting flagged effectively killing the discussion.

I spent an hour today trying to find HN api to build my own custom HN alternative on which people can respond after a post turns dead for not much apparent reason.

It frustrated me because it was about Children's safety & how EU's taking action against Grok in this case... I mean I just want to share my frustration right in here that people aren't thinking of even children but an us vs them dynamic or some reason and flagging and deadding posts. This is a new low that really really frustrated me & I feel like you might understand why too.

Please change the system. I beg of you to fix it because I am seriously frustrated by not even knowing what can get flagged or not or even Dead. I am not against the moderation but can we make it so that instead of auto flagging atleast, its a flag that moderators have to pass?

Please dang, I know you want the best of HN community too. Let's work together, I feel like much of HN community really appreciates you (myself included) but we are all frustrated about it. How do we convey such change in any way where the idea of change seems feasible because It just seems that the idea of change seems like something which doesn't feel possible in HN from whenever I read such threads and that does depress me because HN is the best community i am part of. I am proud of being part of HN and many others are too and this is why we are vocal about some need of change. Some need that moderators are willing to hear our demands of frustrations and fix some aspects with change.

Once again, thank you for your moderation efforts. And I hope we can have a fruitful discussion about my comment in which I have tried to express my deep frustration today...

I am a minor dang, I have got female friends my age and If any one of these photos would've been abused by Grok, I will tell you that they would've been scarred for life, maybe worse. These could have been someone's sisters and daughters.

And what HN community flagged was a post about EU trying to levy a 6% fine on Grok...

My blood boils thinking that there are people in the community I am proud of being whose first thoughts were to flag such an extremely important discussion to make it dead.

I don't come here for politics but I still discuss about them often. I primarily come here to enjoy tech but man oh man I hope you realize my frustration and other users frustrations & are able to implement some thing which can satisfy us well instead of doing nothing please!

I know you aren't a corporate sellout and are passionate about this community, I just hope that something can be done. I believe in you & trust you after writing this message that you will do what you feel is right.

Have a nice day dang.

Edit: Looks like the other thread got reopened again. If Dang opened it (maybe after reading this?) then thanks a lot broski! This is absolutely great that you fixed it man!

But I hope that Hackernews can have such that things like these just don't happen ie. wrongful flags of genuine topics in the first place etc. or something can still be done or atleast some discussion about it within HN discussions or if possible, please discuss it with a community by creating a ask HN just once and discussing it with other (moderators? if I remember I think you are the only one paid moderator, or maybe tomhow iirc) but my point is please just involve the community just once and weigh in for this problem once again.

Modern problems require modern solutions. I just hope that Hackernews keeps on growing and false positives can be stopped and such system can be generated to prevent such as I must admit that the amount of frustration at that time was seriously immense.

Thanks once again for opening that discussion again and once again have a nice day dang!

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#326
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more tech not politics.

Politics is not and was never barred from HN, if that was your point. And, rising fascism would/does directly and massively affect every tech worker in the US. But we're talking about HN censoring topics, in general - not just politics. I'll give you an example with a tech story I commented on just 3 hours ago [0]. Sourced from the BBC, with a correct headline, not a dupe, generating discussion, upvoted, relevant, im…

The guidelines have on-topic stuff that gratifies one's intellectual anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity

>Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.

In the last 24 hours there have been three Musk stories and seven Trump.

I can see both sides but Americans in particular tend to turn any forum for statups and intellectual curiosity into Trump Musk Trump Musk Dems Repubs Trump etc. There are other forums where you can of course do that.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish there was more transparency around mod actions

I think generally the mods like to avoid anything involving "politics" since it's likely to start a flame war. The issue, of course, is that literally anything can be "political", and moreover by trying to actively avoid political discussions you sort of tacitly endorse the status quo. It's a tough line to draw, and I'd be lying if I said where I knew where to draw it; HN is a fun forum specifically because the moder…

We would have curtailed the AI discussion years ago of preventing flame wars was the primary issue. I do think that they simply cling to outdated sentiments that politics is "dirty laundry" to take out instead of properly cleaning hoise.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is automated, if the story gets enough flags (the [dead] part, that is). It sucks, but this is apparently what (some) of the community want.

Since when can you not comment on flagged stories though? Or see them in your own favorites?? Like, I can still comment on other flagged stories even now, but on that one I couldn't. It's since been unflagged, so I guess I can't prove it, but I've never seen this site act like that... Real memory hole stuff.

I was able to comment on that story which is unflagged. Maybe a tech glitch?

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#329
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the mods like to avoid anything involving "politics" since it's likely to start a flame war. You're correct that we like to avoid flamewars, but not correct to say "anything involving politics". We don't try to (or want to) avoid politics altogether—a certain number of threads with political overlap have always been part of the mix here*. For (reams of) past explanations see https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&pa…

Let me just preempt this by saying that I think you and tomhow do a very good job at moderating, and I'm just some goober on the internet sitting on a high-horse, so take what I say with as much respect as possible. Hacker News is my favorite forum in no small part because this forum's users are, on average, a lot more educated than the average internet user. If not formally, a lot of the people here still do value l…

>The concern, then, is that when the educated people can't discuss (and let's be honest, argue about) politics, then the only people who will be discussing politics will be the uneducated people. Politics is inherently contentious and we can't make progress (however you want to define it) without occasionally hurting feelings.

I completely agree. That's why ultimately I abandoned the mainstream stuff (outside of YouTube. Yay monopoly) for discussion and go to Tildes for a lot of political talk. But Tildes is small by design and will have some blind spots.

I feel denying a quality article like this (or rather, upholding the minority's rule of denying) cracks into the idea that these policies work to keep HN high quality. Especially when what's on the front page right now is "I ported typescript to rust in a month with Claude!". These don't feel quality driven.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me just preempt this by saying that I think you and tomhow do a very good job at moderating, and I'm just some goober on the internet sitting on a high-horse, so take what I say with as much respect as possible. Hacker News is my favorite forum in no small part because this forum's users are, on average, a lot more educated than the average internet user. If not formally, a lot of the people here still do value l…

I think a useful litmus test for these kinds of stories is: do the people who most actively participate on them believe there's a conversation to be had, with multiple perspectives, not all of which agree with theirs? That's what this site is for. If not, they're wrong for this site; more than wrong, corrosive. The stories themselves aren't bad (I have a lot of strong political beliefs too), but they're incompatible…

>For the record: I don't believe there's a productive conversation to be had about ICE in Minnesota and wouldn't care to argue with anyone defending their actions.

Funny because I'm probably very radical about ICE and I can still find subtleties on how to reform this. I've never been "Defund the police", quite the opposite. I believe LEOs should have standing, qualities, and training that makes them stand by their emergency peers. Truly the best of the best. Getting that badge should be a similar thrill to being accepted into a top college. They should have years of schooling before truly starting to gain their title.

Getting into a firefighting isn't easy, so why should an LEO see of as a career as a backup for failing to graduate high school? That's where all this falls apart. And now the standards barely get these ICE goons a month of "training". That needs to change.

But with current times, that's not a topic I can discuss on X nor Bluesky. That makes it all the more frustrating that HN plugs its ears on such subtlety instead.

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