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France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

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Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#271

Post by jorvi »

omnimus wrote: post #208
jorvi wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way out of this hole is by the EU mandating a 5, 10 and 20 year plan for getting off US tech and pivoting to open source. Start with a target small municipality in each country. Switch to SUSE (with a desktop that supports Active Directory), Collabora and what not. Then switch the mail stack. Then the files stack. Etc. Next step is scaling it up to a small city, then a big city, then a province, and finally the w…

The problem is that european politicians don't want to kill the tech $$$. They just want to bring the revenue home. They don't understand that they will never make EU big tech and that their only feasible path forward to get rid of US tech is also the path that kills the goose. But that process is inevitable, it's already happening. What is not inevitable is hardware sovereignty. If EU doesn't have some form of hardw…

> If EU doesn't have some form of hardware independence then they might just end up forced to use the US software stack.

In a multipolar world you don't critically need that if you can order your hardware from party I when party C or U shuts you out.

Remember that China is running their own Android island with Huawei and Xiaomi. Yes, a lot of Chinese people flash the Play Store, but it isn't strictly necessary. Not hard to imagine the EU and India creating their own islands too.

Kind of wicked we have to think this way though. I much prefer a world with the maximum healthy amount of open trade and travel.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#272

Post by johnsmith1840 »

boricj wrote: post #248
hintymad wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, isn't it what the Americans and even the current administration want? We want a strong Europe who is keen on preserving and developing the glorious modern civilization that it created. We want a strong Europe who can build and innovate instead of regulating and fining. In contrast, we certainly don't want see the disastrous joke like Northvolt. We certainly don't want to see the joke that BASF shut down its…

The current US administration wants a captive Europe. One that buys its defense, energy and technology products from them. One that sells its territory, regulations and know-how to them. Ask the Department of State if they'd like a European-sized French attitude and strategic autonomy.

Current admin has been on record for years saying the same thing. Warning EU about russia, warning EU about China, warning them about not innovating.

I don't know if this was planned internally but it seems the way they figured out how to get EU to actually do something is to make it seem like big bad trump is going to hurt them.

Current admin has gotten more out of EU than 20years of asking nicely.

Before: US: "please increase military spending" EU: "no"

US: "please do not support our advesaries" EU: "builds nordstream"

US: "stop killing innovation" EU: " more regulation"

Now:

US: "We will invade greenland" EU: "omg we need to invest in greenland and increase its military support, we will send more troops immediately!"

US: "we will pull out of nato" EU: "omg we hate US we need to massively increase military spending and industry"

US: "our tech companies will not listen to you" EU: "omg big bad america, we should try to make out own"

I don't like it but at the same time, it works? Let EU rally against US who cares as long as they actually do something.

Simply put absolute best thing for US is a strong EU. China is an advesary that will take the entire US system to challenge if EU can handle the rest then it's a win.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#274

Post by dutchCourage »

unethical_ban wrote: post #151
harikb wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Products don't necessarily win on merit. Microsoft Teams "won" entirely because it was given away free with Office. Even though it is acceptable these days, it was horrible when it started. There is no way it could have won without unlimited backing from a bigger force. You have to see EU trying these things in the same light.

It wasn't seen as a priority national security measure before. Now we have a US leader who may wake up tomorrow and put 100% tariffs on cloud services to EU corps or have the NSA demand chat logs.

The security issue is real and the main motivation behind decoupling from US cloud services.

Export tarrifs aren't really a thing, particularly for software. Making US cloud more expensive would only make transitioning away from them faster.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#275

Post by m00dy »

hintymad wrote: post #195
softwaredoug wrote: post #113

Americans fail to appreciate a few things about our economy 1. We have a large homgoneous market where you can build a product and it’s expected it can succeed for hundreds of millions of Americans 2. EU is the easiest second market, and another step change of hundreds of millions of customers in a somewhat unified market 3. there’s not an easy 3rd economy that replaces EUs wealth, population, and comfort with Englis…

In a way, isn't it what the Americans and even the current administration want? We want a strong Europe who is keen on preserving and developing the glorious modern civilization that it created. We want a strong Europe who can build and innovate instead of regulating and fining. In contrast, we certainly don't want see the disastrous joke like Northvolt. We certainly don't want to see the joke that BASF shut down its…

oh man, I agree with what you are saying but EU is a joke.!

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#276

Post by surgical_fire »

PlatoIsADisease wrote: post #219
softwaredoug wrote: post #113

Americans fail to appreciate a few things about our economy 1. We have a large homgoneous market where you can build a product and it’s expected it can succeed for hundreds of millions of Americans 2. EU is the easiest second market, and another step change of hundreds of millions of customers in a somewhat unified market 3. there’s not an easy 3rd economy that replaces EUs wealth, population, and comfort with Englis…

>2. EU is the easiest second market, and another step change of hundreds of millions of customers in a somewhat unified market I was making hardware at one point, and it took less than a day to decide that Europe was not getting our product. The regulations were insane. I imagine software is significantly easier, but there is a mountain of difference when it comes to electrical and plumbing.

> I was making hardware at one point, and it took less than a day to decide that Europe was not getting our product.

If you are unwilling to follow regulations to sell your hardware here, then it tells me the regulations are already doing its job properly.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#277

Post by stackghost »

xiphias2 wrote: post #200
softwaredoug wrote: post #113

Americans fail to appreciate a few things about our economy 1. We have a large homgoneous market where you can build a product and it’s expected it can succeed for hundreds of millions of Americans 2. EU is the easiest second market, and another step change of hundreds of millions of customers in a somewhat unified market 3. there’s not an easy 3rd economy that replaces EUs wealth, population, and comfort with Englis…

There's only one thing they need to replace if they want to show independence: ChatGPT. They had their chance with Mistral and failed spectacularly with just creating anti-AI regulations. As a European I'm happy to use their product (and pay for it), I just ask one tiny little thing from them: build a better model with lower latency.

>There's only one thing they need to replace if they want to show independence: ChatGPT. They had their chance with Mistral and failed spectacularly with just creating anti-AI regulations.

I think the idea of a Eurostack is more compelling: standard office productivity tools that aren't beholden to Microsoft, Apple, or Google. That means email, calendar, spreadsheets, word processing, slide decks, video conferencing.

Imagine if every government and corporation in the eurozone stopped paying for Windows licenses and O365 subscriptions.

LibreOffice exists, of course, but it lacks an alternative to Outlook and Teams/Zoom. It would benefit from a benevolent corporate sponsor with deeper pockets than TDF which AFAIK is purely volunteer-driven.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#278

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

Countries are waking up to the danger of having the US in a position to take control of most of their computers and phones via software updates.

Open source solutions like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu could become more prominent. There's even interesting non us hardware options like https://starlabs.systems/

The US has had an unfair advantage in tech, defense, science and finance because it hosted the global hubs of the free world. This attracted eye-watering amounts of money to places like SF and NY. With the newfound isolationism, tariffs, threats etc. reducing the viability of hosting the global hubs, there's massive opportunities opening in europe and elsewhere, especially if governments can help bootstrap these sectors with efforts like these.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#279

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #260
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India. Today India invited President of EU commission on its republic day & I feel like there are discussions on signing free trade agreement. I was in my car watching it live when I recognized the President of EU commissioner and I was like hey!! I feel like friendly relations of EU and India are definitely on the rise & I have said this previously as well and talked to my other cousins/family who works in Coding an…

I can't wait to see how many indians we are going to be forced to import due to that "free trade deal". They must have looked at how well it went in canada and said among themselves "now that's how you destroy a country we gotta get some of that". [EDIT] Hopefully national politicians get balls, more balls, and tell their MEPs to vote against it like the mercosur deal.

For what its worth, I have to mention that India losses more on this deal than Europe because India's actually for the first time iirc imo giving up tariffs or reducing them. India has the highest tariff rates for a developing country from the start (indiscriminant) and is only offering upgrades to EU mostly fwiw in terms of this free trade deal.

I have heard this deal be described as EU beneficiary from EU sources.

Ah yes, I feel like what you want for an EU is a connection with America which has been a very unreliable partner would even be an understatement in today's geopolitical environment.

It's saddening to see if you are from EU who actually believes so. I am more than happy to answer your queries in good faith but this just feels like pushing some of your own agenda or straight up racist.

We come with open arms even though the massacre of jallianwala bagh is still in our memories. There is just no question regarding the fact that EU primarily british forces had extracted immense wealth from India and India had to primarily rebuild it from scratch healing from the scars of its colonial past.

There's actually an internal pushback from some people i feel like who feel like EU is still imperialist & want to shut down this deal from India side given India hasn't lost much after the trump's tariffs compared to EU whose greenland was in some serious sovereign threats.

But I guess the point is that EU India deal is inevitable in this multi polar deal. India wants EU to be the financial hub where EU can then reinvest in India and India can create technological innovation.

I have tried to respond with as much calm as possible but I must admit that your message felt like a must admit,ragebait to me in start but I hope that this detailed message can help clear up on the details.

If you have any reasonable questions man, feel free to ask!

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#280

Post by rchaud »

CMay wrote: post #232
brightball wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did he threaten 100% tariffs?

Because Canada has been in trade talks with China and may potentially lower its tariffs on China which gives them a back door into the US. There are some specifics and it's all conditional. It depends on the kinds of deals it settles on.

It's not a back door to anything. It's competition for the US and Japanese automotive manufacturers who are protected by the existing tariffs.
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