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Can we get a rule about completely pointless arguments that present nothing of value to the conversation? Chinese models still don't want to talk bad about China, water is still wet, more at 11
Qwen3-Max-Thinking
261–270 of 450 posts
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#262[flagged]
This looks like it's coming from a separate "safety mechanism". Remains to be seen how much censorship is baked into the weights. The earlier Qwen models freely talk about Tiananmen square when not served from China. E.g. Qwen3 235B A22B Instruct 2507 gives an extensive reply starting with: "The famous photograph you're referring to is commonly known as "Tank Man" or "The Tank Man of Tiananmen Square", an iconic imag…
Difficult to blame them, considering censorship exists in the West too.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#263One thing I’m becoming curious about with these models are the token counts to achieve these results - things like “better reasoning” and “more tool usage” aren’t “model improvements” in what I think would be understood as the colloquial sense, they’re techniques for using the model more to better steer the model, and are closer to “spend more to get more” than “get more for less.” They’re still valuable, but they op…
Pareto frontier is the term you are looking for
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, they don't. Censorship of the Chinese models is a superset of the censorship applied to US models. Ask a US model about January 6, and it will tell you what happened.
Wait, so Qwen will not tell you what happened on Jan 6? Didn't know the Chinese cared about that.
Point being, US models will tell you about events embarrassing or detrimental to the US government, while Chinese models will not do the same for events unfavorable to the CCP.
The idea that they're all biased and censored to the same extent is a false-equivalence fallacy that appears regularly on here.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, they don't. Censorship of the Chinese models is a superset of the censorship applied to US models. Ask a US model about January 6, and it will tell you what happened.
But which version?
The version backed by photographic and video evidence, I imagine. I haven't looked it up personally. What are the different versions, and which would you expect to see in the results?
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#266Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's an example of political censorship on US LLMs?
Try any generation with a fascism symbol: it will fail. Then try the exact same query with a communist symbol: it will do it without questioning. I tried this just last week in ChatGPT image generation. You can try it yourself. Now, I'm ok with allowing or disallowing both. But let's be coherent here. P.S.: The downvotes just amuse me, TBH. I'm certain the people claiming the existence of censorship in the USA, were…
In France for example, if you carry a nazi flag, you get booed and arrested. But if you carry a soviet flag, you get celebrated.
In some Eastern countries, it may be the opposite.
So it depends on cultural sensitivity (aka who holds the power).
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Max was always closed.
So the only way to run it is by using Qwen's API? No thanks. At least with Kimi and GLM, I can use Fireworks/whatever to avoid sending data to China.
When I looked earlier, Qwen claims to have DCs in Singapore and (I think?) the US but now I can't seem to find where I saw that.
Whether that means anything, I dunno.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Helping prevent racism and Nazi propaganda at scale protects actual people. Censoring tiananmen square or the January 6th insurrection just helps consolidate power for authoritarians to make people's lives worse.
Putin accused Ukrainians of being nazis and racists as justification to invade them. The problem with censorship is your definition of a nazi is different than mine and different than Putin's, and at some end of the spectrum we're going to be enabling fascism by allowing censorship of almost any sort, since we'll never agree on what should be censored, and then it just gets abused.
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Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
Helping prevent racism and Nazi propaganda at scale protects actual people. Censoring tiananmen square or the January 6th insurrection just helps consolidate power for authoritarians to make people's lives worse.
Putin accused Ukrainians of being nazis and racists as justification to invade them. The problem with censorship is your definition of a nazi is different than mine and different than Putin's, and at some end of the spectrum we're going to be enabling fascism by allowing censorship of almost any sort, since we'll never agree on what should be censored, and then it just gets abused.
That's not how it works, at all. Russia didn't become a dictatorship after censoring fascists. Quite the contrary, in fact. By giving a platform to fascism, you risk losing all free speech once it gains power. That's what's happening in the US.
Censorship is not a way to dictatorship, dictatorship is a way to censorship. Free speech shouldn't be extended to the people who actively work against it, for obvious reasons.