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Vibe coding kills open source

arxiv.org

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Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#51

Post by cpursley »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #11
tomaytotomato wrote: post #6

I have been trying to use Claude code to help improve my opensource Java NLP location library. However trying to get it to do anything other than optimise code or fix small issues it struggles. It struggles with high level abstract issues. For example I currently have an issue with ambiguity collisions e.g. Input: "California" Output: "California, Missouri" California is a state but also city in Missouri - https://gi…

> I started the project in my brain and it has many flaws and nuances which I think LLMs are struggling to respect. The project, or your brain? I think this is what a lot of LLM coders run into - they have a lot of intrinsic knowledge that is difficult or takes a lot of time and effort to put into words and describe. Vibes, if you will, like "I can't explain it but this code looks wrong"

Yes, a lot of coders are terrible at documentation (both doc files and code docs) as well as good test coverage. Software should not need to live in ones head after written, it should be well architected and self-documenting - and when it is, both humans and LLMs navigate it pretty well (when augmented with good context management, helper mcps, etc).

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#52

Post by gibspaulding »

alright2565 wrote: post #27
tomaytotomato wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I updated my original comment to explain my reasoning a bit more clearly. Essentially I ask an LLM to look at a project and it just sees the current state of the codebase, it doesn't see the iterations and hacks and refactors and reverts. It also doesn't see the first functionality I wrote for it at v1. This could indeed be solved by giving the LLM a git log and telling it a story, but that might not solve my issue?

I personally don't have any trouble with that. Using Sonnet 3.7 in Claude Code, I just ask it to spelunk the git history for a certain segment of the code if I think it will be meaningful for its task.

Out of curiosity, why 3.7 Sonnet? I see lots of people saying to always use the latest and greatest 4.5 Opus. Do you find that it’s good enough that the increased token cost of larger/more recent models aren’t worth it? Or is there more to it?

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#53

Post by shafyy »

echelon wrote: post #43
nicoburns wrote: post #37

Something I've noticed is that AI code generation makes it easier/faster to generate code while shifting more work of the work of keeping code correct and maintainable to the code review stage. That can be highly problematic for open source projects that are typically already bottlenecked by maintainer review bandwidth. It can be mitigated by PR submitters doing a review and edit pass prior to submitting a PR. But a…

The maintainers can now do all the work themselves. With the time they save using AI, they can get much more work done. So much that having other engineers learn the codebase is probably not worth it anymore. Large scale software systems can be maintained by one or two folks now. Edit: I'm not going to get rate limited replying to everyone, so I'll just link another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46765…

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not?

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#55

Post by wooderson_iv »

echelon wrote: post #43
nicoburns wrote: post #37

Something I've noticed is that AI code generation makes it easier/faster to generate code while shifting more work of the work of keeping code correct and maintainable to the code review stage. That can be highly problematic for open source projects that are typically already bottlenecked by maintainer review bandwidth. It can be mitigated by PR submitters doing a review and edit pass prior to submitting a PR. But a…

The maintainers can now do all the work themselves. With the time they save using AI, they can get much more work done. So much that having other engineers learn the codebase is probably not worth it anymore. Large scale software systems can be maintained by one or two folks now. Edit: I'm not going to get rate limited replying to everyone, so I'll just link another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46765…

Do you have anecdotes or evidence of this or is it speculative?

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#56

Post by marginalia_nu »

> When OSS is monetized only through direct user engagement, greater adoption of vibe coding lowers entry and sharing, reduces the availability and quality of OSS, and reduces welfare despite higher productivity. Sustaining OSS at its current scale under widespread vibe coding requires major changes in how maintainers are paid.

I can't think of even a single example of OSS being monetized through direct user engagement. The bulk of it just isn't monetized at all, and what is monetized (beyond like a tip jar situation where you get some coffee money every once in a while) is primarily sponsored by enterprise users, support license sales, or through grants, or something like that. A few projects like Krita sell binaries on the steam store.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#57

Post by BoredPositron »

I have written so many small scripts and apps that do exactly what I want. The general purpose OSS projects are always a compromise. I believe if LLMs mature some more years we will see a decline in these general purpose projects and will see a rise in personal apps. I dont think its something to worry about.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#58

Post by faxmeyourcode »

tomaytotomato wrote: post #6

I have been trying to use Claude code to help improve my opensource Java NLP location library. However trying to get it to do anything other than optimise code or fix small issues it struggles. It struggles with high level abstract issues. For example I currently have an issue with ambiguity collisions e.g. Input: "California" Output: "California, Missouri" California is a state but also city in Missouri - https://gi…

> LLMs dont care about the story, they just care about the current state of the code

You have to tell it about the backstory. It does not know unless you write about it somewhere and give it as input to the model.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#59

Post by bugglebeetle »

koakuma-chan wrote: post #41
echelon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't have to ignore this stuff for long. Pretty soon it'll be mandatory to keep up. I've been a senior engineer doing large scale active-active, five nines distributed systems that process billions of dollars of transactions daily. These are well thought out systems with 20+ folks on design document reviews. Not all of the work falls into that category, though. There's so much plumbing and maintenance and wiring…

I'm not saying that you shouldn't use AI. There was a submission to a blog post discussing applications of AI but it got killed for some reason. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46750927 I remain convinced that if you use AI to write code then your product will sooner or later turn into a buggy mess. I think this will remain the case until they figure out how to make a proper memory system. Until then, we still h…

> I remain convinced that if you write code then your product will sooner or later turn into a buggy mess.

FYFY

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#60

Post by ipaddr »

draxil wrote: post #48
WarmWash wrote: post #29

Small bespoke personalized on the spot apps are the future with LLMs. The future will absolutely not be "How things are today + LLMs" The paradigm now for software is "build a tool shed/garage/barn/warehouse full of as much capability for as many uses possible" but when LLMs can build you a custom(!) hammer or saw in a few minutes, why go to the shed?

I think that's an optimistic interpretation of how good LLMs are? But I think the reality is: LLMs democratise access to coding. In a way this decreases the market for complete solutions, but massively increases the audience for building blocks.

That you get no credit for open sourcing. Why would creators spend time anymore?
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