Non-programming skills every programmer should have • Hacker News Board

Re: Non-programming skills every programmer should have

#41

Post by Evbn » Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 3:24 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #30

victorhn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "spiritual" word is often used in non-religious contexts to mean the mastery of the inner world. Meditation is often used as a way to take control of your thought processes (which are sometimes negative), so that's why it's often classified as a spiritual practice.

Huh, I don't think I've heard it used like that before, or didn't understand it that way in any case. "Spiritual" to me, being based on "sprit", always has connotations of external supernatural entities.

The word spiritual is usually used as an intentional avoidance of religious particulars.

Re: Non-programming skills every programmer should have

#42

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 5:07 AM UTC

Yes, we programmers should learn how to sketch! Not to produce beautiful art but to communicate ideas visually. I really regret not developing this skill, as I find myself blocked when trying to draw something on a whiteboard. My girlfriend (an interaction designer/visual communications graduate) really kicks my butt here, but then there is pressure in her field for her to learn programming :)

Writing (and perhaps presentation) is another skill we should develop. Writing is not just about communication, but it also aids in idea refinement.

On the other hand, even though I'm all for zen and all, I think spirtual skills are deeply personal and not necessary. Social skills are also very relative, and if you struggle with these your career as a programmer is not over! Same for biz skills, no one has to be a jack of all trades, but you'll probably absorb these skills at your own pace as you advance in your career.

Re: Non-programming skills every programmer should have

#43

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 5:15 AM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #25

R_Edward wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest that "spiritual skills" encompass an understanding that there are connections between ourselves and our surroundings that defy precise, scientific description. Whether that's a feeling of camaraderie with your teammates, or a sense that one's office is warm and inviting or cold and unpleasant, or an immediate response upon meeting someone for the first time that you can trust them implicitly--or that you…

All of those things you mentioned are to a large degree explained by science. Spirituality appears to require at least some belief in something beyond the material world. There are certainly things that can be taken from spiritual practises that can be useful but in most cases there is an explanation for this value that does not require any belief in the supernatural.

Relying on some kind of placebo or customs to enrich our lives is perhaps not very crazy. If we take everything at face value, the universe is vast in time and space and so our lives are very insignificant or meaningful; its hard to justify doing anything at all in that case.

Just replace spirituality with custom, culture, emotion, and its not so anti-intellectual.

Re: Non-programming skills every programmer should have

#44

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 5:17 AM UTC

adamgb wrote: post #14

If someone had all these skills, why would they be a programmer? :)

Most of us program because we want to, not because we lost some contest and would rather be doctors, lawyers, business leaders.

Re: Non-programming skills every programmer should have

#45

Post by grownseed » Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 6:42 AM UTC

alanctgardner2 wrote: post #32

grownseed wrote: post #29

A lot of people seem to be offended by this article when I think all the author was trying to say is that opening yourself to other, non-programming related stuff simply helps you become a better programmer as a whole. I honestly don't think he's suggesting you should be a pro at all those other points, just have a fairly good knowledge of them. I personally find that, on top of the points mentioned in the article, a…

It's one thing to say that programmers (and everyone, really) should have a hobby outside of work. This is a laundry list of vague ideas - 'Startup' is not a skill - that the author insists every person who programs for a living should be interested in. What exactly is 'looking beyond the code'? Can you give an example of a problem where two equally skilled programmers were faced with a problem, and one had an epipha…

I agree this isn't a particularly refined article, I'm just saying he does make a point. A lot of programmers, myself included, have a tendency to be a bit narrow-minded.

And no, I suppose I don't have a specific example. I just notice that the programmers I know who are more than just coders are considerably more efficient, and come up with better, cleaner solutions.

This is, of course, only speaking from personal experience. And in regards to your "extreme underwater basket weaving club" example, well, maybe it does. I learnt Latin for a while and as useless as it may seem on a day-to-day basis, it did wonders to my logical thinking.

Re: Non-programming skills every programmer should have

#46

Post by ahmicro » Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 8:18 AM UTC

Yes, and I realized this when I start to work for a company and found myself have a lack of explaining the project with my manager and not founding new ideas to implement, and explaining this feature and why we shoud add. A programmer shoud be able to communicate with other people and explain their ideas very well, so I should stat reading one book for each thing that will affect the way i think in programming or in life. I also found that presentation skills are very important and to understand the business side. We are not going to be a business or sketches guys but theses things will help us in programming very well and the way we think.

Re: Non-programming skills every programmer should have

#47

Post by jiggy2011 » Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 1:25 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #43

jiggy2011 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those things you mentioned are to a large degree explained by science. Spirituality appears to require at least some belief in something beyond the material world. There are certainly things that can be taken from spiritual practises that can be useful but in most cases there is an explanation for this value that does not require any belief in the supernatural.

Relying on some kind of placebo or customs to enrich our lives is perhaps not very crazy. If we take everything at face value, the universe is vast in time and space and so our lives are very insignificant or meaningful; its hard to justify doing anything at all in that case. Just replace spirituality with custom, culture, emotion, and its not so anti-intellectual.

The article talks about stuff like meditation, that isn't really a placebo or custom. There is research done that is showing benefits of this.

Re: Non-programming skills every programmer should have

#48

Post by slurgfest » Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 7:15 PM UTC

crazypyro wrote: post #15

slurgfest wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because telling everyone that they have to have religion is such a strong compulsion that people can't even resist doing it in an article supposedly aimed at programmers.

He very clearly states its not about religion and that he isn't religious. Just a poor title.

But like "spirit," "spiritual" is still really a religious word. If (hypothetically) I just happen to think that the universe operates according to normal physical principles, with no gods or magic, and that what is important is life on earth, then I am not "spiritual" and thus, according to this guy, I am a worse programmer.

This is just social pressure to conform to certain kinds of ideas. The fact that the word "spiritual" allows me to self-label as religious even if I don't belong to a large institution like the Catholic church is not very helpful if I am just not religious. And why should I have to be?

Re: Non-programming skills every programmer should have

#49

Post by andrewcooke » Sat, Oct 20, 2012, 10:18 PM UTC

MattGrommes wrote: post #27

dangrover wrote: post #24

It's funny how many programming jobs are designed explicitly to insulate you and not require any of these skills. Just code and let the adults do all the talking. In many organizations, it's easy to get caught in a catch-22 where to advance, you need nontechnical skills, and to develop nontechnical skills, you need to advance. For some, this means they get to do what they love without much hassle (see "do you still w…

I've found that even sitting at the kids' table you can make sure people in the rest of the business know that you're not just a code monkey. I try to ask questions, make suggestions, make sure people know me and that I contribute more than just lines of code to the business. Even though I have little desire to move up to the adult table I think it's good for your long-term career to be known as more well-rounded. Pl…

more than that, you can be both. that's really what consultants are (at least, the "small" kind, like me). there's a market for people that can both code and talk. and, if you like to code more than talk, but can talk when necessary, then it can be quite lucrative.

and it actually makes the coding easier. some of the most frustrating parts of development come from not being in control - you are very much dependent on the person above whose talking to the client. and it helps the client too, because with less buffer they can get faster feedback. which again helps you, because you can do faster iterations and understand more closely what the customer wants...