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ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

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Re: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

#551

Post by soulofmischief »

Barrin92 wrote: post #505
soulofmischief wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disingenuous to say Americans are "allowing" themselves to do anything in the face of countless, relentless, multi-billion corporate campaigns, designed by teams of educated individuals, to make them think and act in specific ways.

>to make them think and act in specific ways. with the kind of images that are out in the open for everybody with their own eyes to see, if that does not move you in your heart of hearts, where no government or anyone else can touch you, there is something rotten in that person. Governments and authority figures can show you a lot of things but the amount of people who not just accept it, but gleefully celebrate the…

The problem is that by the time some people encounter these shocking images and videos of mass human torture, their priors have already been developed to reject their eyes and ears in favor of what the people with whom they've entrusted their safety tell them.

These people think Charlie Kirk was on the frontlines of personal freedom, but look the other way when a man gets tackled and shot in broad daylight for trying to help a woman who's just been maced.

It's horrible, and inexcusable, but still crucial to understand through a framework that accounts for the effects of multi-generational propaganda peddled by the ultra-rich who have been shaping our thoughts and behaviors through advertisement and capital for hundreds of years.

Re: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

#552

Post by tediousgraffit1 »

rlt wrote: post #510
cauch wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that the majority of the people supporting the crackdown don't care about the fact that the crackdown may break the law. Which is demonstrated by the fact that these people totally don't care of what is the number of innocents deported. You can see these people saying "we should deport the illegals", but how often you can see them saying "but I also want to know the number of innocent deported, and if this…

If there were any evidence of widespread deportations of people who shouldn't be then I think you'd see more people speaking up, but there's not. People don't have to caveat their support of every policy with hypotheticals. I also don't think most people want illegal aliens to be deported for "justice". They (rightfully or wrongly) think they're taking their jobs, contributing to crime, facilitating drug trade, costi…

> I am also dealing with a number of emergencies, including a lockdown at the Minneapolis courthouse because of protest activity, the defiance of several court orders by ICE, and the illegal detention of many detainees by ICE (including, yesterday, a two-year old).[1]

Federal district judges in mpls are releasing dozens of illegally detained individuals per day. You may not be hearing about it, but it is absolutely happening. Your not hearing about is part of the problem.

[1] https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca8.113...

Re: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

#553

Post by steve-atx-7600 »

duxup wrote: post #266
simonw wrote: post #2

Any time I see people say "I don't see why I should care about my privacy, I've got nothing to hide" I think about how badly things can go if the wrong people end up in positions of power. The classic example here is what happens when someone is being stalked by an abusive ex-partner who works in law enforcement and has access to those databases. This ICE stuff is that scaled up to a multi-billion dollar federal agen…

The thing also is, it doesn't matter what the truth is. If the computer says you did a thing, the thugs (ICE) will do what they want. Here is someone out for a walk, ICE demanding ID, that she answer questions. She says she's a US citizen ... they keep asking her questions and one of the ICE people seem to be using a phone to scan her face: https://np.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/1qbawlr/minneap... What she says…

People have a real hard time understanding that they are only as free as the most oppressed citizen in their country/state/city.

Re: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

#554

Post by cauch »

rlt wrote: post #510
cauch wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that the majority of the people supporting the crackdown don't care about the fact that the crackdown may break the law. Which is demonstrated by the fact that these people totally don't care of what is the number of innocents deported. You can see these people saying "we should deport the illegals", but how often you can see them saying "but I also want to know the number of innocent deported, and if this…

If there were any evidence of widespread deportations of people who shouldn't be then I think you'd see more people speaking up, but there's not. People don't have to caveat their support of every policy with hypotheticals. I also don't think most people want illegal aliens to be deported for "justice". They (rightfully or wrongly) think they're taking their jobs, contributing to crime, facilitating drug trade, costi…

> I also don't think most people want illegal aliens to be deported for "justice". They (rightfully or wrongly) think they're taking their jobs, contributing to crime, facilitating drug trade, costing taxpayers money, etc.

That's my point and the reason of my first comment, which answered to a comment saying

> Immigration laws, like any other laws, need to be enforced, right?

I was reacting to that by saying that we should not pretend that the motivation here is "applying the law". It is not the case and it never was. (and also that "applying the law" does imply a balance between false positive and false negative, but that suddenly, trying to avoid the false negative is strangely not applying the law)

> If there were any evidence of widespread deportations of people who shouldn't be ...

Somehow, I doubt it. You are yourself saying "they think (rightfully or wrongly)". They are not interested in evidence, they don't really care to check if what they think has any evidence supporting it, it is just convenient for them.

If there are evidence of widespread false positive, they will just hold tight to the idea that "they were traitors anyway". It is more convenient for them. (and in fact, there currently is a lot of evidence of a high number of false positive, but they deny it exactly like that)

The proof of that is that there are already plenty of red flags everywhere showing that officials are incompetent. The officials say that there are plenty of bad illegal dangerous persons, and yet, the only people they manage to shoot just appear to be non-illegal with no history of extremism. Then, when it happens, they starts fabricating excuses that turn out are total lies. And then ... it happens again. Even if you buy into the idea that there are indeed plenty of bad illegal dangerous persons, you have to admit that they are awful at fixing it.

It is not technically a "widespread false positive", but it is already something that a neutral reasonable person will be incapable to deny that there is a problem. And yet, right now, these people who, according to you will totally "start to speak up", don't hesitate to bury their head in the sand and insist that it is all normal.

It is totally unrealistic to pretend that suddenly, when there is widespread evidence of false positive, they will not continue to find excuse and pretend that these evidences are fake news and lies propagated by traitors.

Re: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

#555

Post by tombert »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #544
cmorgan31 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the AG demanded the voter rolls for MN to remove ICE it becomes obvious what game is being played. It’s a shame the USA is a terrible place.

If it was actually a terrible place the illegal immigrants would leave on their own volition and it wouldn't be necessary to have federal police find them and forcibly arrest and deport them.

I think that's a bit reductive. There are plenty of economic, political, or familial reasons for not leaving.

Many people are trying to evade oppressive regimes where their prospects might literally mean death. The US can still be "terrible" while still not being quite as dangerous as that.

I mean, this kind of reads victim-blamey; hyperbolic example, when a person stays with an abusive partner for much longer than they should, does that imply that that relationship isn't terrible?

Re: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

#556

Post by andygeorge »

rlt wrote: post #540
AngryData wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the firearm may discharge when it is dropped and the back of the slide hits the ground at a 33-degree angle" That is pretty hard to accomplish while its in a holster unless the guy was suplexed and his entire spine turned to jello giving the gun a multi-foot uncushioned drop. "misfire was due to "a partial depression of the trigger by a foreign object combined with simultaneous movement of the slide" Which is irrele…

If it misfired it likely misfired as it was being taken, not while in his holster. If you’re detaining someone who has a gun and a gun goes off it’s incompetent, maybe negligent, but not murder to react by shooting the guy who had the gun. I don’t think anyone can draw definitive conclusions from the videos.

> it’s incompetent but not murder

That is a conclusion

Re: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

#557

Post by spondyl »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #203
simonw wrote: post #2

Any time I see people say "I don't see why I should care about my privacy, I've got nothing to hide" I think about how badly things can go if the wrong people end up in positions of power. The classic example here is what happens when someone is being stalked by an abusive ex-partner who works in law enforcement and has access to those databases. This ICE stuff is that scaled up to a multi-billion dollar federal agen…

It reminds me of when Eric Schmidt, then CEO of google, tried that argument about people's worry of google collecting so much personal data. Some media outlet then published a bunch of personal information about Schmidt they had gathered using only google searches, including where he lives, his salary, his political donations, and where his kids went to school. Schmidt was not amused.

For some specific quotes, here are some excerpts from In The Plex: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34931437

Eric had also once said in a CNBC interview "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

Re: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

#558

Post by paulryanrogers »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #389
ralph84 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then doesn't it make more sense for the people who prefer living among a high fertility rate to move to the places where there's a high fertility rate? Why should people who don't have that preference have to endure mass migration when they don't want, didn't ask, and didn't vote for it?

Makes no sense at all imo, especially when you consider the origin story and melting pot ethos that made the US what it was in the first place.

The folks in charge have made it pretty clear they want Caucasian people, especially northern European or white South African. They believe what made the US great in the past wasn't a diverse population sharing power. Rather people like them at the top, owning and ordering around everyone else.

Re: ICE using Palantir tool that feeds on Medicaid data

#560

Post by paulryanrogers »

refurb wrote: post #243
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US cannot afford, demographically, to curtail immigration, illegal or otherwise. Simple fact is the US needs more people because we’re under the replacement rate.

That logic doesn't hold up. Legal immigration - as is today - is about 1% of the US population. That's pretty standard, and would result in an slowly increasing population. But regardless, saying "we need immigrants" then jumping to "illegal or not" is not a logical argument. We absolutely can have a system that prevent illegal immigration, while carefully screening legal immigrants. Heck, every country in the world…

The US values individual freedom, has porous borders, a diverse population, and a large land mass. Citizens would have to put up with some pretty draconian living conditions to ensure zero illegal migration.

Even Reagan granted mass amnesty in the face of such costs.

We can disagree on where the threshold of unacceptable intrusion into our lives should be. But significant change probably requires replacing the Fourth Amendment. Or--as is happening now--pretending the 4A doesn't exist and hope whoever is in power next won't prosecute them.

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