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Yes, It's Fascism

theatlantic.com

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Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#21

Post by burnto »

RealityVoid wrote: post #15
fugalfervor wrote: post #5

I am so terribly disturbed by the ICE shootings (and killings). There is no justification for them. This is supposed to be a nation of laws and the rights of those shot (to say nothing of those abducted and harassed, beaten, or removed without due process) has been so grossly violated that it's hard to believe. My heart aches for the countless victims of this band of fascists in the executive branch.

> I am so terribly disturbed by the ICE shootings (and killings). There is no justification for them. I think they are simply poorly trained people that are given free reign. The results are disastrous. They probably don't wake up thinking "Today I'm going to murder someone" but they just don't realize what they're doing. I'm not sure how it's at the destructiveness scale at this moment, but these organizations can a…

Yep, I also have been a bit alarmed how this is pattern matching to early phases of the many revolutions covered in the Revolutions podcast. A U.S. revolution is a frightening proposition, even if it’ll seem warranted at some future point.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#22

Post by p4bl0 »

An additional short read which is really worth it: Il fascismo eterno by Umberto Eco, in which the author describes 14 properties of fascists regimes.

It's been translated in English as Ur-fascism and is available online for free at the anarchist library: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci....

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#23

Post by Tostino »

RealityVoid wrote: post #6

I actually think that there is an amalgam of ideologies here (I know, so very fascist of them). Trump is more of a monarchist. A lot of the people supporting him are outright fascists. Some are plain idiots. Them winning absolute control over the country would be a disaster for their movement though. They'd turn to internal fighting, the entropy of victory and all that. And they don't seem terribly competent with gov…

And Germany would have been a much larger country economically if Hitler was executed after his first coup attempt. The Weimar government didn't choose that path though, and went for civility.

The brain drain was massive, both before the war, and even more so after. That didn't stop the peasant minded from supporting the Nazi regime though. They got to punish the people who they were told made them poor.

I live in FL, so I get to interact daily with people who are cheering for this crackdown, and have said the equivalent of "those rioters (protestors) should be put down in the street". I don't have much hope for where our country is headed.

The flags on any type of post like this are absolutely ridiculous. Glad the mods are at least for now letting this one stand.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#24

Post by mickle00 »

RealityVoid wrote: post #6

I actually think that there is an amalgam of ideologies here (I know, so very fascist of them). Trump is more of a monarchist. A lot of the people supporting him are outright fascists. Some are plain idiots. Them winning absolute control over the country would be a disaster for their movement though. They'd turn to internal fighting, the entropy of victory and all that. And they don't seem terribly competent with gov…

It's sad that these posts are now seemingly disappearing from /active in addition to the home page

They are very relevant to the current state of affairs in America, with respect to tech, immigration, startups, and the hacker ethos

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#25

Post by Kaibeezy »

If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance, not political in form — test-fitting an imprecise definition. The fact it also reaches a firm conclusion (spoiler alert right there in the title) is depoliticized by allowing for malleable application. A benchmark article I will now go share elsewhere.

What’s left to talk about? How to react. How it ends. Where we likely go from there. Where we should go.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#26

Post by formerly_proven »

RealityVoid wrote: post #15
fugalfervor wrote: post #5

I am so terribly disturbed by the ICE shootings (and killings). There is no justification for them. This is supposed to be a nation of laws and the rights of those shot (to say nothing of those abducted and harassed, beaten, or removed without due process) has been so grossly violated that it's hard to believe. My heart aches for the countless victims of this band of fascists in the executive branch.

> I am so terribly disturbed by the ICE shootings (and killings). There is no justification for them. I think they are simply poorly trained people that are given free reign. The results are disastrous. They probably don't wake up thinking "Today I'm going to murder someone" but they just don't realize what they're doing. I'm not sure how it's at the destructiveness scale at this moment, but these organizations can a…

> They probably don't wake up thinking "Today I'm going to murder someone" but they just don't realize what they're doing.

Jonathan Ross (the ICE agent who shot and killed Renée Good) is an Iraq war veteran who has served in military and paramilitary units (National Guard, CBP, ICE) for over two decades. He intentionally engaged in a behavior that has been documented as far back as 2014 [1] to manufacture a reason to shoot the person in front of him.

Did he premeditate killing someone while getting out of bed that morning? Probably not.

Did he make the decision to kill Ms. Good in advance? No reasonable doubt.

[1] Even by CBP internal reviews, no less: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/us-border-agents-i...

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#27

Post by cookszn »

wslh wrote: post #18

I don’t understand how there aren’t demonstrations happening almost everywhere in the US by now.

Yea let me go protest the government on behalf of foreigners illegally crossing the border!

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#28

Post by freitasm »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #16
testing22321 wrote: post #3

The parallels it dark times in history are too strong to ignore. The only question now is will the people be able to stop the takeover before it’s too late.

After reading this piece I was wondering if there were any examples of a fascist state that were deposed by peace, or whether armed conflict is now inevitable.

There are few, Spain's King Juan Carlos I being crowned king after Francisco Franco's death, and Chile's Pinochet leaving power after the 1988 referendum for example.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#29

Post by tartoran »

testing22321 wrote: post #3

The parallels it dark times in history are too strong to ignore. The only question now is will the people be able to stop the takeover before it’s too late.

It seems like it's already too late, I see Americans who I thought were down to earth unbothered by ICE killings, blaming victims and calling criticism as TDS aka Trump Derangement Syndrome. I was totally shocked the other day when this came from an open minded and seemingly 'cool' guy at work.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#30

Post by csense »

Everyone's paying a lot of attention to how bad Trump is, or the midterms. My question is, what happens in 2028? How much of current policy is something the majority of Republican voters (let alone the American people) or the political class actually want and would do without Trump to lead them? How much is only being implemented due to Trump's choices, political style and cult of personality? (Assuming Constitutional safeguards remain strong enough that Trump can't find a way to remain in power past his current term; if Trump is still President in 2029, the system's seriously broken down and all bets are off.)

Will the US say "Wait a minute, things went too far, now that he's gone we need more checks and balances before another President tries to repeat what just happened" like when they added term limits to the Constitution after FDR, or some of the post-Watergate limits imposed on the Presidency?

Or will Trump's redefinition of government power become normalized, like the redefinition of government power that happened with the Patriot Act, TSA security theater, NSA spying on US citizens, etc. after 9/11 that was justified as anti-terrorism? Those policies were never unwound even though the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are over, Osama bin Laden is dead, and there have been no more attacks on that scale.

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