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Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

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Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#491

Post by glenstein »

gruez wrote: post #481
glenstein wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you could argue it helps to express a distinction but that doesn't mean it has to live inside the verb install. Historically installing software was the general act and provenance was handled with qualifiers eg installing from "third-party sources", "manual install" etc. Android is alone among computing platforms in collapsing that qualifier into a new term that implicitly recenters the Play Store as the defaul…

>Sure, you could argue it helps to express a distinction but that doesn't mean it has to live inside the verb install. Right, which is why they used "sideload". >In other ecosystems the store path is described as "store install" not the other way around. Android chose the inverse framing and that choice isn't neutral. No, this is just being non-neutral in the opposite direction. Given the fact that installing from th…

"That’s why they used sideload" is exactly the point being contested. Historically, install was the unmarked, neutral verb for adding software, regardless of source. The distinction, when needed, lived in qualifiers about provenance. Introducing a new verb for non-store installs does more than merely describe a difference, it reassigns conceptual ownership of "install" to the store path.

And neutrality here isn't about mirroring current usage frequency (which is unique to Android and recent relative to the history of computing), it's about continuity with prior computing norms. Even when one distribution path dominated in practice, it didn't get to redefine the base verb.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#492

Post by IshKebab »

fsflover wrote: post #454
IshKebab wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never going to work. Any competitor that isn't Android won't have app support (e.g. you won't even be able to message people in 90% of the world where WhatsApp, Telegram, Line, etc. are the de facto communication method for almost the entire population). So you need some way to run Android apps... which is totally possible, but at that point why not just use Android?

Telegram desktop app works flawlessly on Mobian, PureOS, postmarketOS though. Whatsapp web version can be used, too. > So you need some way to run Android apps... which is totally possible, but at that point why not just use Android? Perhaps for reasons like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261

> Whatsapp web version can be used, too.

Pretty awful UX, and you still need an Android phone to actually run WhatsApp.

> Perhaps for reasons like this

When I say "use Android", I mean the codebase, not necessarily Google's Android. Something like PostmarketOS.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#493

Post by al_borland »

gruez wrote: post #372
manuelabeledo wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iOS YouTube app is not worse than the one in Android. Texting in iOS is arguably better or, at the very least, there is one more app to choose (Messages). And I’m curious to know what makes Antenna Pod so much better than the thousands of other podcast apps out there. Social media apps have historically been worse in Android, because of lax app and privacy controls. > What else is there, where is the advantage? P…

>at the very least, there is one more app to choose (Messages). How's that different than Google Messages being exclusive to Android?

Everyone I know on iOS just uses Messages, they don’t feel a need for other apps.

People on Android I’ve run into seem to have a half dozen apps and use anything but the built in messaging.

A few months ago while on a trip I ran into an older couple that wanted some picture I took in a place they weren’t physically up to going. They were not tech savvy at all. Had they been on iOS, they would have just been using Messages and it would have been easy. They had Android, and the guy opened about 5 or 6 different messaging apps, not really knowing what any of them were, it seemed like a real mess. I sent them using Messages over RCS, assuming they’d go to Google Messages, or whatever the default equivalent standard app is for Google (they seem to have changed it a dozen times). It could be that the pictures were taking a while to send, my phone showed they sent, but he had no idea where to look or where they might have went, despite having so many messaging apps. I hope he is able to find them or they came through with a notification once he had a better single.

Having one good app that everyone uses is better than the default app being sub-par, or so constantly in flux that the users and smattered about to dozens of different apps that can’t talk to each other.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#494

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

nunez wrote: post #477

At least they aren't removing it like originally planned. A warning from `adb sideload` or `adb install` that can be bypassed with an environment variable is reasonable IMO.

I'd really like to see details before drawing conclusions. If it really is just an extra up-front warning screen or something then yes that's reasonable. If it's something that unfairly disadvantages F-Droid compared to the much less safe Google Play store, then it's unreasonable.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#495

Post by pier25 »

aembleton wrote: post #459
pier25 wrote: post #453

The vast majority of Android users don't sideload apps. I used Android for years and only did it during dev. I don't know anyone who does it.

No need to restrict it then

Plenty of users will benefit from restricting it or even disabling sideloading entirely. I know my mother in her 70s can't be trusted with downloading random crap from the internet.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#496

Post by 8note »

hoistbypetard wrote: post #425
onli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? Browsers? No, strictly worse. Youtube app? No, worse. Texting? Worse or equal (Whatsapp). Podcast client? I assume worse, since there is no Antenna Pod. Social media apps? The iOS variants of those apps are afaik in…

I don't know about categories overall, but I'm attached to my iPad and won't switch to Android in part because Affinity is not available there, nor is there any near equivalent as far as I can tell. I still think Overcast is nicer to use than Antenna Pod. Microsoft Office apps work much better on iDevices, in my experience. (I know they exist for Android, but I've never had much luck editing there, where it actually…

how do you live without ublock on your browser though?

firefox with adblock is the high quality youtube app

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#498

Post by js8 »

xandrius wrote: post #121

I take the opportunity to let people know that there are alternatives to Google/Apple duopoly on mobile. Link: https://www.ubuntu-touch.io/ Sure, GrapheneOS is often suggested but Ubuntu Touch is a really interesting alternative, their own store and ecosystem. The community is amazing and welcoming. If there are Android apps which you can't do without, they can be emulated and used anyway. Imagine switching to Linux…

I was looking into buying one of those: https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/

No experience, but if they lock out Android I probably will.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#499

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

I think we should stop calling it "sideloading". I don't think the history of the term matters. By using that term, you imply that running the code you want on the hardware you own is somehow a secondary or second-class activity.

Call it "installing" or "jumping the garden wall".

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#500

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

skerit wrote: post #174
leminimal wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu Touch so far has the best hardware compatibility for things like camera and battery life. But it also insists on doing a lot of its own thing like using Mir instead of X and click packages. Running programs inside Libertine often crashes for me and is cumbersome. It makes developing for it harder. clickable needs Docker installed just so you can build and run your own apps on the device! Instead of letting you…

> like using Mir instead of X X11 is dead. It's over. At least Mir is now a Wayland client.

Standalone Xorg is on life support, not dead.
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