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Palantir has no place in UK public services

opendemocracy.net

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Re: Palantir has no place in UK public services

#31

Post by boomlinde »

potamic wrote: post #23
nailer wrote: post #18

[flagged]

As someone who is neither a Jew nor a Palestinian, I'm going to take this with a grain of salt, because there is so much mud being slung across from both sides.

There's no need to even take it with a grain of salt. The factual circumstances described in the article are extremely mundane, but the article tries to paint her participation as a problem by supposing that anyone participating in a public event should only do so if they can answer for every disparate opinion of everyone else there.

Re: Palantir has no place in UK public services

#33

Post by nailer »

boomlinde wrote: post #31
potamic wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is neither a Jew nor a Palestinian, I'm going to take this with a grain of salt, because there is so much mud being slung across from both sides.

There's no need to even take it with a grain of salt. The factual circumstances described in the article are extremely mundane, but the article tries to paint her participation as a problem by supposing that anyone participating in a public event should only do so if they can answer for every disparate opinion of everyone else there.

Part of the hacker news guidelines is to assume that everyone read the article, so obviously you read the sentence that started with:

> One can never control what others say or do at any public gathering but if actions take place that I disagree with, once this has been pointed out, it is right and important to explain one’s own position

Re: Palantir has no place in UK public services

#34

Post by hexbin010 »

nextos wrote: post #17
tombert wrote: post #12

The more I read about Palantir, the creepier and weirder it becomes. The CEO brags about wanting to kill all journalists with fentanyl, or brags about how their software will be used to kill people, and how readily they're willing to work for the convicted fraudster that America felt fit to give the nuclear codes. And despite this company being creepy and weird and bizarre and secretive, they are also trying to make…

Ironically, the Danish Government is a heavy user of Palantir systems, including creepy predictive policing solutions. I would be keen to know if citizen data is being handled correctly, following GDPR/LED. Given previous Danish client-state-like cooperation with NSA to spy on other EU countries, I can imagine the answer.

I love how powerful the GDPR marketing was that it made people forget that there are massive exceptions for prevention of crime and for the government

Re: Palantir has no place in UK public services

#35

Post by hexbin010 »

throwaway150 wrote: post #14
ronsor wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK society has always been surprisingly tolerant of mass surveillance. Whether Palantir is involved or not, I think it may be too late to get off the train.

I know UK is ok with surveillance in public places because there is no expectation of privacy in public spaces. But are they really tolerant of surveillance in non-public places?

Brit here. Yes because the average Brit is insufficiently educated to understand the harm. They are very easily swayed by "think of the children" or saving just one life. They consume huge amounts of propaganda with little to zero critical thinking

Re: Palantir has no place in UK public services

#37

Post by ggm »

I'd be surprised if they cannot provide services which translate to outcomes successive governments want. So in that sense, "has no place" is about alignment to goals, as much as desires. Palantir is able to do things which the government wants done. If this pits government against citizenry in terms of what people think, thats not unusual.

The big-4 would happily also do this. Deloitte, EY, KPMG and PwC Would take money to provide outlines and project management for an in-house, or an outsource to somebody other than Palantir. It wouldn't neccessarily be either cheaper, or faster, or for that matter any more socially acceptable.

I don't like the source, I could agree with the opinion (broken clock write 2x a day..) but to pretend government doesn't want what Palantir is selling is faux naieve and stupid.

What alternative is there, and why is "don't do it" viable?

This is "defund the police" wolf howling at the moon stuff.

Re: Palantir has no place in UK public services

#38

Post by secretsatan »

mc32 wrote: post #2

The UK is building/has built a surveillance state using the boiling frog method. So even if you change vendors, surveillance will continue. You have accepted it as par for the course. Unless you reject it and subsequent politicians don't double-cross you, surveillance will continue. No question.

It’s something that always horrified me, but it was just done without the governments help, they just let private individuals do it and gave away public spaces to private interests

Re: Palantir has no place in UK public services

#39

Post by izacus »

nextos wrote: post #17
tombert wrote: post #12

The more I read about Palantir, the creepier and weirder it becomes. The CEO brags about wanting to kill all journalists with fentanyl, or brags about how their software will be used to kill people, and how readily they're willing to work for the convicted fraudster that America felt fit to give the nuclear codes. And despite this company being creepy and weird and bizarre and secretive, they are also trying to make…

Ironically, the Danish Government is a heavy user of Palantir systems, including creepy predictive policing solutions. I would be keen to know if citizen data is being handled correctly, following GDPR/LED. Given previous Danish client-state-like cooperation with NSA to spy on other EU countries, I can imagine the answer.

GDPR has carveouts for governments and law enforcement so they can do whatever for those purposes.

Re: Palantir has no place in UK public services

#40

Post by gabaix »

tombert wrote: post #12

The more I read about Palantir, the creepier and weirder it becomes. The CEO brags about wanting to kill all journalists with fentanyl, or brags about how their software will be used to kill people, and how readily they're willing to work for the convicted fraudster that America felt fit to give the nuclear codes. And despite this company being creepy and weird and bizarre and secretive, they are also trying to make…

Karp is a philosopher by training that has fallen into ideological blindness. He claims that he is on the right side of history. Democracies need Palantir badly.

He preaches his views to his employees. No one in his flock seems to wonder what would happen if their tools were to be used against democracy.

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