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Draig, a Welsh Programming Language

raku.land

21–30 of 49 posts

Re: Draig, a Welsh Programming Language

#21
post #14
post #4

whenever you would use 'l', you have to use 'll'? i'llll get my coat

I know it’s just a joke but the “ll” in Welsh is a completely distinct character in the Welsh alphabet and doesn’t sound anything like “l”, nor is it used as a substitute for l. It’s rarely used but it has its own Middle-Welsh character: ỻ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ll

[deleted]

Re: Draig, a Welsh Programming Language

#22
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know little about china (except i like the food and art) but do they actually write code in their native language(s)?!

I can only speak for Japan, but I suspect China is the same. In Japan, English programming is the norm because all mainstream programming languages are written in English. Keywords, libraries and documentation are in English, so there's not really any getting around the fact that you have to learn to read at least some English. Some Japanese developers do write identifiers in Japanese where languages support it, and…

Why not use a pre-processor or something like it to simply translate the keywords etc? I know that there isn’t a 1:1 match between English words and words in other languages, but you should be able to get something close enough.

Re: Draig, a Welsh Programming Language

#23
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for Japan, but I suspect China is the same. In Japan, English programming is the norm because all mainstream programming languages are written in English. Keywords, libraries and documentation are in English, so there's not really any getting around the fact that you have to learn to read at least some English. Some Japanese developers do write identifiers in Japanese where languages support it, and…

Why not use a pre-processor or something like it to simply translate the keywords etc? I know that there isn’t a 1:1 match between English words and words in other languages, but you should be able to get something close enough.

I actually have done that, but there are still problems. It doesn't really do anything to help somebody who can't read English because things like error messages and libraries are still in English, and it doesn't play nicely with IDE tooling, which is fixable in open-source editors but not proprietary editors. It ends up being a lot of effort for an experience that feels very much second-class.

Re: Draig, a Welsh Programming Language

#27

Question: is it a good idea to introduce kids to coding in their mother tongue like this?

It's already been linked in comments here but there's been a bit of exploration in that area with Hedy. There's some good references to prior work and comments of relevance in this paper https://hedy.org/research/A_Framework_for_the_Localization_o....

Re: Draig, a Welsh Programming Language

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You want 'for' to be a looping construct with no other meanings. Seeing code in my native language makes me laugh, I can't take it seriously.

I strongly disagree. Take, for example... foreach (apple in fruitbasket) apple.Eat() vs. for (int i = 0; while i Even as a low-level programmer, I truly loathe C-style for loops. It takes several seconds to parse them, while the C#-style foreach is instantly grokkable with zero mental overhead. When you're scanning over thousands of lines of codes, the speed and ease of reading constructs like these adds up and makes…

Coming soon to a programming ecosystem near you:

LLM(eat apples in fruitbasket)

vs

foreach (apple in fruitbasket) apple.Eat()

Your comment can be repeated almost word for word here.

Re: Draig, a Welsh Programming Language

#29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. Take, for example... foreach (apple in fruitbasket) apple.Eat() vs. for (int i = 0; while i Even as a low-level programmer, I truly loathe C-style for loops. It takes several seconds to parse them, while the C#-style foreach is instantly grokkable with zero mental overhead. When you're scanning over thousands of lines of codes, the speed and ease of reading constructs like these adds up and makes…

Coming soon to a programming ecosystem near you: LLM(eat apples in fruitbasket) vs foreach (apple in fruitbasket) apple.Eat() Your comment can be repeated almost word for word here.

Not at all. I'm comparing two different syntaxes that can reliably compile to the same machine code. A syntax that produces non-deterministic results is a completely different matter.

Re: Draig, a Welsh Programming Language

#30
post #6

Question: is it a good idea to introduce kids to coding in their mother tongue like this?

i've always given the advice "program in english, comments, variables, function names, everything", and "always use a uk/us keyboard unless you absolutely have to enter localised strings, and even better get someone else to do that"

The smart projects that are going for L10N will collect all the UI strings into a file or set of files, separate from the code, and indexed so that the app can just switch language and then begin using a new set of localized strings. This also makes for easy translation where you don't need to rebuild the app, just expand the data files that it's using. Is this not the only way to build apps today, or are "localized strings" still being hardcoded??
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