Live data from Hacker News

Some advice from Jeff Bezos

37signals.com

31–40 of 140 posts

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#31
post #25
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it was really weird hitting the bottom of the article only to find a vaguely racist nonsensical byline.

I don't think is racist. I'm hispanic and I don't feel offended of white people calling themselves white :-) because they're white.

I suspect the racist tag was applied because stereotypically white men are slower runners than black men. But as far as racism goes that's... not to mention that it's a white guy talking about himself.

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#32
post #31
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think is racist. I'm hispanic and I don't feel offended of white people calling themselves white :-) because they're white.

I suspect the racist tag was applied because stereotypically white men are slower runners than black men. But as far as racism goes that's... not to mention that it's a white guy talking about himself.

While I'm generally happy with the position that white guys can take it, I think it's still racist to imply white men are slow, whether one is a white guy or not.

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#33

I never understood why consistent opinions are considered a good thing, it doesn't make any sense. If I realize I'm wrong, why should I stick to the wrong opinion?

The whole concept of "flip flopping" being a bad thing is something from the political arena that spilled out into a broader social context.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with changing your mind as your understanding evolves.

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#34

I never understood why consistent opinions are considered a good thing, it doesn't make any sense. If I realize I'm wrong, why should I stick to the wrong opinion?

It's because if you change your mind frequently enough, people stop listening to you or giving your opinion any weight. I'm not saying this is right, or that it occurs as often as is feared, but it is the fear, and it does occur.

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#35
I would argue that this is the defining factor in what makes someone intelligent or not. If you're always revising your ways of thinking about a problem, your probability of converging on a solution is vastly greater than someone with a narrow, one-track focus. In fact, another article on the HN homepage (http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/streams-of-consciousness...) elaborates on this point of trying multiple "solution paths" to arrive at an answer to a problem.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people get it in their head that they've discovered the "right way" and dismiss every other idea. This problem is particularly notorious in subjects like quantum mechanics. The field is so confusing that people find some kind of local comprehension maximum that they get stuck in and refuse to budge from that sort of ideology (which is often the wrong ideology by the way since QM is such a deep subject. Throw some quantum field theory or standard model physics at a quantum chemistry professor or TA and they won't know what to make of it).

To give a more concrete example: did you know that a spinning ball weighs more than the same ball when it is stationary? Tell this to someone decently knowledgable in physics and there's a good chance they'll argue vehemently against you based on their misunderstanding (or misinformation) of what they've learned in the past. Sometimes the effort to convince someone of an idea like this isn't worth the time; these people are locked into one way of thinking and take it as an affront to their ego. There's limited intelligence here. Don't want to be like this? Don't get angry when someone challenges you. That's the best way to start. I've never understood why so many people get upset if you try to point out a flaw in their reasoning. I've noticed this sort of anger much less frequently on HN (on the other hand, there's significantly more "you're wrong" posts than a normal discussion board).

In fact, do a little experiment if you wish. Look through HN stories and find places where people challenge each other in the comments. If you notice someone who says "you know what -- you're correct" or "yeah, that makes more sense", there's a good chance they make a lot of intelligent posts on here. If you find someone that never concedes to anyone else, it's likely they are locked into one and only one way of thinking and are unlikely to ever do anything considered "genius".

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#36
post #30

I never understood why consistent opinions are considered a good thing, it doesn't make any sense. If I realize I'm wrong, why should I stick to the wrong opinion?

The hypothetical cleverest, most correct person possible would be right 100% of the time and therefore would never change their opinion because changing it would go from right to wrong. Therefore a simplistic view is that the closer to that person you are, the better. Some people may even think they are that person. Realising that you are not going to be correct 100% of the time is the first step. The second step is…

> The hypothetical cleverest, most correct person possible would be right 100% of the time and therefore would never change their opinion because changing it would go from right to wrong.

The problem with this, is that most opinions are applied to most circumstances in highly contextual ways. What's the best database? It's one thing to talk about it in abstract and another entirely to talk about it for a specific project.

> Therefore a simplistic view is that the closer to that person you are, the better. Some people may even think they are that person.

When human knowledge, technology, and political circumstances mostly changed slowly, this was a good heuristic. Now, it's pretty rotten. It's better to take things up one level of indirection and instead of observing their opinions, note how they absorb new knowledge and circumstances instead. Observe if they are a good listener. Observe if they can alter their mental model in the light of new facts.

> Some people may even think they are that person.

Stay away from that person! Things change too fast nowadays. Look for the "beginner's mind."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#37

I never understood why consistent opinions are considered a good thing, it doesn't make any sense. If I realize I'm wrong, why should I stick to the wrong opinion?

I think it goes back to politics. It's considered a bad thing in that arena because people can't trust that you will keep your word on the platform that you hired them on. This is especially true for the divisive issues like abortion, healthcare, etc.... I think it's a stupid policy in general though.

I understand it in a similar way...

People like security and therefore stability, it's one of our basic needs. We like stable environment, including people's opinions. Imagine everyone changes their opinion all the time, it could be fun but not everyone would like that :)

Also, people who often change opinions may look dishonest, opportunistic and unpredictable.

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#38

I never understood why consistent opinions are considered a good thing, it doesn't make any sense. If I realize I'm wrong, why should I stick to the wrong opinion?

Consistent opinions are a good thing as long as unbiased, informed data continues to support that choice. One must know, though, that it's not infallible, but it's good enough, given the information provided.

Consistency is good. Blind devotion is bad.

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#39
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hypothetical cleverest, most correct person possible would be right 100% of the time and therefore would never change their opinion because changing it would go from right to wrong. Therefore a simplistic view is that the closer to that person you are, the better. Some people may even think they are that person. Realising that you are not going to be correct 100% of the time is the first step. The second step is…

> The hypothetical cleverest, most correct person possible would be right 100% of the time and therefore would never change their opinion because changing it would go from right to wrong. The problem with this, is that most opinions are applied to most circumstances in highly contextual ways. What's the best database? It's one thing to talk about it in abstract and another entirely to talk about it for a specific pro…

> The problem with this, is that most opinions are applied to most circumstances in highly contextual ways. What's the best database? It's one thing to talk about it in abstract and another entirely to talk about it for a specific project.

That doesn't prevent someone from being right 100% of the time. It may prevent them from saying "x is the best database", but not from saying "x is the best for y use, z is the best for... etc"

The problem is with the fact that no-one is capable of always being right, not that the hypothetical person couldn't always be right.

Re: Some advice from Jeff Bezos

#40

I never understood why consistent opinions are considered a good thing, it doesn't make any sense. If I realize I'm wrong, why should I stick to the wrong opinion?

Getting to the new insight is only one reason why people change their opinions.

Often people change their argument istead because at new time different position benefits them most. Or because they don't think trough what they are saying. Or there are simply people who like to win. In my experience the later ones happen lot more often than people getting better understanding.

Changing opinions in smart people are often not oposites of previous one, but upgrade of previous position.

Post reply on HN