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Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#331

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So democracy is falling in the most militarily powerful country on earth, citizens are being executed and rights stripped… and you think it’s not OK to be angry? You think we just shouldn’t discuss it at all because people are angry? Putting our heads in the sand will not help.

> and you think it’s not OK to be angry? no, it’s perfectly fine to be angry, I would be very concerned with anyone’s mental health who isn’t angry about this. > You think we just shouldn’t discuss it at all because people are angry? Well, if we just want to discuss how angry we are , that’s just called venting. That’s fine, vent. But don’t confuse that with discussion. I don’t find venting about how angry something…

> That’s fine, vent. But don’t confuse that with discussion.

The idea that discussion should be dispassionate and analytical is just wrong. All that does is hides biases. Discussion should be honest; often that means being messy and angry.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#332

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When you're in a high stress physical altercation with obscured vision, and you see a gun in your opponent's pants, and then a hand on that gun, and then the gun being pulled out of the pants by that hand, all happening quickly in succession, you may believe in that split second that you are in a mortal situation. These are not well trained soldiers here. I'm not defending them, just guessing at the explanation. I'm…

I've yet to hear how someone with their hands restrained and forced on the ground managed to get their hands on their gun. Can you please educate me?

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#333
post #301

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Hmm... well maybe I need to explain my fear better. Because Pam Bondi/DoJ refuses to prosecute these cases, this will _keep happening_ for the foreseeable future. There's no reason for ICE to stop this behavior. Its not today's crime that scares me most. Its the easily predicted future where this gets worse by next month. The converse is the rise of the far-left. We're already seeing Black Panther patrol with long-gu…

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#334
post #320
post #257

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People have been making a version of this argument for as long as I've been doing this job. There is always a feeling of this-time-is-different, how-can-you-not urgency. I'm not saying that's wrong, but there's a counterargument. The counterargument is that political flames have a way of consuming everything they touch and that if we had listened to this argument in the past, HN would have ceased to exist years ago.…

but fighting against a tyrannical, oppressive, illegitimate government is exactly what a hacker would do? if you want an apolitical forum, don't call it hacker news, it's false advertisement. maybe call it ostrich news or something.

Yes, it's what many hackers would do, and have done, and HN has had, and does have, many threads about that kind of thing.

I realize these distinctions get lost when people are feeling heated, but HN has never been an apolitical site and we don't describe it that way. There are more options than just (1) being apolitical and (2) being completely aflame. Not that they're easy squares to occupy.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 (May 2018)

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#335

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> it's easy to see the very real authoritarian bend of comfortable professionals who are smart but also in favor of, say, summary execution of people for protesting There’s that rhetoric I’m talking about! Thanks for giving a perfect example. For topics like these, the expectation is that everyone comes in here and expresses sufficient levels of outrage. After all, if you’re scrolling through all the posts showing th…

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#336

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Sure, the article is not the clearest, but the "violently resisted" quote is taken verbatim from the DHS tweet. Just visit the link I posted, this will take you two seconds to verify.

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#337

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And when you're unlawfully murdered, you have no recourse. They do not care what you tell them, and if you don't resist, you're potentially dead anyway. They have arrested lawful immigrants and citizens, and held them illegally, in some cases for weeks or months. "Comply and you might get lucky and survive" is not a life safety strategy. I'm unsure where this idea to not resist someone who is very likely to kill you…

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You seem to not believe they’re murdering people without justification, so there’s no common ground to be had. You will likely always believe their lethal force is justified, regardless of facts, so we are at an impasse.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#339
post #323

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Immigration and Customs Enforcement. It is separate from law enforcement with different rules, training, and authority. They enforcement a subset of rules/law. They are not law enforcement in the general sense law enforcement is thought of, no more than Parking Enforcement. For example they can't pull someone over for breaking the law. They don't have authority to enforce all laws, only immigration and customs, and t…

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And yet the videos show that they didn't enforce the law. It's right there in the videos.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's easy to see the very real authoritarian bend of comfortable professionals who are smart but also in favor of, say, summary execution of people for protesting There’s that rhetoric I’m talking about! Thanks for giving a perfect example. For topics like these, the expectation is that everyone comes in here and expresses sufficient levels of outrage. After all, if you’re scrolling through all the posts showing th…

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I don’t know you but I hope wherever you are you’re safe and have a good idea of what your next steps are going to be. I’m getting increasingly distraught over what’s happening myself. It’s starting to affect my family life and I’m having a lot of trouble coping.

Venting on the internet is a way for a lot of people to come to grips with what they’re seeing. I understand. If this is what helps you cope, I won’t stop you.

Me, it’s especially difficult to see how this hatred is so self-amplifying. I see a president whose primary method of getting to where he is, is to make people hate each other to a maximum degree. I watch liberals like myself fall for it. I see how he intentionally puts armed agents in locations where he knows people will protest, then I see how those protesters are killed in the most predictable way imaginable, because they’re seen as a threat by the people with guns. Then I see the hatred get worse, the protests get larger, with more innocent people joining in, and meanwhile Trump is shipping more armed agents to the same cities.

I wish I had an answer. The answer isn’t “don’t protest”, nor is the answer “let’s all put ourselves in a position to be killed” either. I hope on some level that the images of these people getting executed is seared into enough people’s minds that Trump pays an actual political cost, but then I remember what the BLM protests turned into, and how public support tanked for what should have been an obvious issue. So whatever is going to happen, I’m not sure any of our anger is actually going to help. But I don’t really have an answer. I’m sorry.

My reasons for flagging topics like this is it just fits a pattern of “administration does something abhorrent, people get mad, social media amplifies the anger, it turns into real world deaths.” I really don’t like seeing this happen. I don’t like the hatred amplification that the internet is doing to my country. I don’t know what else to say.

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