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Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

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Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#221
post #5

FYI BitLocker is on by default in Windows 11. The defaults will also upload the BitLocker key to a Microsoft Account if available. This is why the FBI can compel Microsoft to provide the keys. It's possible, perhaps even likely, that the suspect didn't even know they had an encrypted laptop. Journalists love the "Microsoft gave " framing because it makes Microsoft sound like they're handing these out because they lik…

> Any power users who prefer their own key management should follow the steps to enable Bitlocker without uploading keys to a connected Microsoft account. Except the steps to to that are disable bitlocker, create a local user account (assuming you initially signed in with a Microsoft account because Ms now forces it on you for home editions of windows), delete your existing keys from OneDrive, then re-encrypt using y…

>Except the steps to to that are disable bitlocker, create a local user account (assuming you initially signed in with a Microsoft account because Ms now forces it on you for home editions of windows), delete your existing keys from OneDrive, then re-encrypt using your local account and make sure not to sign into your Microsoft account or link it to Windows again.

1. Is there any indication it forcibly uploads your recovery keys to microsoft if you're signed into a microsoft account? Looking at random screenshots, it looks like it presents you an option https://helpdeskgeek.com/wp-content/pictures/2022/12/how-to-...

2. I'm pretty sure you don't have to decrypt and rencrypt the entire drive. The actual key used for encrypting data is never revealed, even if you print or save a recovery key. Instead, it generates a "protectors", which encrypts the actual key using the recovery key, then stores the encrypted version on the drive. If you remove a recovery method (ie. protector), the associated recovery key becomes immediately useless. Therefore if your recovery keys were backed up to microsoft and you want to opt out, all you have to do is remove the protector.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any power users who prefer their own key management should follow the steps to enable Bitlocker without uploading keys to a connected Microsoft account. Except the steps to to that are disable bitlocker, create a local user account (assuming you initially signed in with a Microsoft account because Ms now forces it on you for home editions of windows), delete your existing keys from OneDrive, then re-encrypt using y…

They don't do that for iMessage though... https://james.darpinian.com/blog/apple-imessage-encryption

Only because others you communicate with may not have ADP turned on, which is a flaw with any service that you cannot control what the other end does or does not do, not unique to Apple/iMessage outside of using something like Signal.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>even a cosmic ray flipping the "do not upload" bit in memory Stats on this very likely scenario?

It's "HN-likely" which translates to "almost never" in reality.

Happens all the time, in reality (even on the darkside). When the atmosphere fails (again, happening all the time), error correction usually handles the errant bits.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#224

It's interesting how many comments these days are like, "well of course". Back in the day hackernews had some fire and resistance. Too many tech workers decided to rollover for the government and that's why we are in this mess now. This isn't an argument about law, it's about designing secure systems. And lazy engineers build lazy key escrow the government can exploit.

> Too many tech workers decided to rollover for the government

s/workers/Corporations/

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If users are so paranoid that they worry about a cosmic ray bit flipping their computer into betraying them, they're probably not using a Microsoft account at all with their Windows PC.

If your security requirements are such that you need to worry about legally-issued search warrants, you should not connect your computer to the internet. Especially if it's running Windows.

Right, this is just a variation on "If you have nothing to hide..."

ETA: You're not wrong; folk who have specific, legitimate opsec concerns shouldn't be using certain tools. I just initially read your post a certain way. Apologies if it feels like I put words in your mouth.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what a private key means in this context?

No, I don't. The bitlocker key is a symmetric key.

Ok, do you at least know what private means?

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#227
post #5

FYI BitLocker is on by default in Windows 11. The defaults will also upload the BitLocker key to a Microsoft Account if available. This is why the FBI can compel Microsoft to provide the keys. It's possible, perhaps even likely, that the suspect didn't even know they had an encrypted laptop. Journalists love the "Microsoft gave " framing because it makes Microsoft sound like they're handing these out because they lik…

> If your company has data that the police want and they can get a warrant, you have no choice but to give it to them.

Yes. The thing is: Microsoft made the design decision to copy the keys to the cloud, in plaintext. And they made this decision with the full knowledge that the cops could ask for the data.

You can encrypt secrets end-to-end - just look at how password managers work - and it means the cops can only subpoena the useless ciphertext. But Microsoft decided not to do that.

I dread to think how their passkeys implementation works.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any power users who prefer their own key management should follow the steps to enable Bitlocker without uploading keys to a connected Microsoft account. Except the steps to to that are disable bitlocker, create a local user account (assuming you initially signed in with a Microsoft account because Ms now forces it on you for home editions of windows), delete your existing keys from OneDrive, then re-encrypt using y…

> make sure not to sign into your Microsoft account or link it to Windows again That's not so easy. Microsoft tries really hard to get you to use a Microsoft account. For example, logging into MS Teams will automatically link your local account with the Microsoft account, thus starting the automatic upload of all kinds of stuff unrelated to MS Teams. In the past I also had Edge importing Firefox data (including store…

Do we have confirmation that it’s a must to upload the key if you use an MS account with Windows? Is it proven that it's not possible to configure Windows to have an MS account linked, maybe even to use OneDrive, while not uploading the BitLocker key?

Btw - my definition of “possible” would include anything possible in the UI - but if you have to edit the registry or do shenanigans in the filesystem to disable the upload from happening, I would admit that it’s basically mandatory.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your security requirements are such that you need to worry about legally-issued search warrants, you should not connect your computer to the internet. Especially if it's running Windows.

In the modern political environment, everyone should be worried about that.

In all political environments everyone should be worried about that. The social temperature can change rapidly and you generally can't force a third party to destroy copies of your things in a reliable manner.

Re: Microsoft gave FBI set of BitLocker encryption keys to unlock suspects' laptops

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I can't believe it took this long. We have mandatory identification for all kinds of things that are illegal to purchase or engage in under a certain age. Nobody wants to prosecute 12 year old kids for lying when the clicked the "I am at least 13 years old" checkbox when registering an account. The only alternative is to do what we do with R-rated movies, alcohol, tobacco, firearms, risky physical activities (i.e. bu…

I don't think that's quite right. The age-gating of the internet is part of a brand new push, it's not just patching up a hole in an existing framework. At least in my Western country, all age-verified activities were things that could've put someone in direct, obvious danger - drugs, guns, licensing for something that could be dangerous, and so on. In the past, the 'control' of things that were just information was illusory. Movie theaters have policies not to let kids see high-rated movies, but they're not strictly legally required to do so. Video game stores may be bound by agreements or policy not to sell certain games to children, but these barriers were self-imposed, not driven by law. Pornography has really been the only exception I can think of. So, demanding age verification to be able to access large swaths of the internet (in some cases including things as broad as social media, and similar) is a huge expansion on what was in the past, instead of just them closing up some loopholes.
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