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AI is a horse (2024)

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Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#201

Post by panopticon »

rubenflamshep wrote: post #143
chrisweekly wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, electric mountain bikes are popular (where they're allowed), mostly because they make ascents so easy.

They’re great when the trails aren’t too technical. No so much when they are (as I’ve learned from personal experience )

I'm curious what your personal experience is.

My eMTBs are just as capable as my manual bikes (similar geometry, suspension, etc). In fact, they make smashing tech trails easier because there's more weight near the bottom bracket which adds a lot of stability.

The ride feel is totally different though. I tend to gap more sections on my manual bike whereas I end up plowing through stuff on the hefty eeb.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#202

Post by esafak »

MattGrommes wrote: post #186
whattheheckheck wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like the Segway... really cool at first then not really then totally overpriced and failed to revolutionize the industry. And it killed the founder

Just a small correction, the founder of Segway is Dean Kamen who is still alive. It was the then-owner of the company who died.

It would have been cooler if this comment was by the founder :)

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#203

Post by boringg »

cogman10 wrote: post #177
whattheheckheck wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like the Segway... really cool at first then not really then totally overpriced and failed to revolutionize the industry. And it killed the founder

Is there a modern segway? I mean, I find ebikes are probably a better option in general, but it seems like all the pieces to recreate the segway for a much lower price are there already. Looks like the closest thing is the self balancing stuff that segway makes. Otherwise it's just the scooters.

e-skateboards?

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#204

Post by rightbyte »

jayd16 wrote: post #140
djmips wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like if Jobs was still alive at the dawn of AI he would definitely be doing a lot more than Apple has been - probably would have been an AI leader.

Jobs also needed to control the user experience. Apple wasn't really a web leader either. They were able to bootstrap a mobile platform because they could convince themselves they had control of the user experience. I'm not so sure where AI would land in the turn of the millennium Apple culture.

> I'm not so sure where AI would land in the turn of the millennium Apple culture.

Instead of doing almost correct email summaries Jobs would have a LLM choose color of the send button with an opaque relationship with the emotional mood of the mail you write.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#205

Post by fsckboy »

matthewkayin wrote: post #77
simonw wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been calling LLMs "electric bicycles for the mind", inspired by that Jobs quote. - some bicycle purists consider electric bicycles to be "cheating" - you get less exercise from an electric bicycle - they can get you places really effectively! - if you don't know how to ride a bicycle an electric bicycle is going to quickly lead you to an accident

I like this analogy. I'll add that, while electric bicycles are great for your daily commute, they're not suited for the extremes of biking (at least not yet). - You're not going to take an electric bike mountain biking - You're not going to use an electric bike to do BMX - You're not going to use an electric bike to go bikepacking across the country

>- You're not going to take an electric bike mountain biking

this sounds like a direct quote from Femke Van Den Driessche, who actually took an electric bike mountain biking: big mistake. Did it not perform well? no, actually it performed really well, the problem was, it got her banned from bike racing. Some of the evidence was her passing everybody else on the uphills; the other evidence was a motorized bike in her pit area.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#206

Post by ffsm8 »

Symmetry wrote: post #70
ffsm8 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would pure ai ever be "much stronger" in this scenario? That doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever, it can only be "equally strong", making the approach non-viable because they're not providing any value... But the only way for the human in the loop to add an actual demerit, you'd have to include time taken for each move into the final score, which isn't normal in chess. But I'm not knowledgeable on the topic,…

If you had a setup where the computer just did its thing and never waited for the human to provide input but the human still had an unused button they could press to get a chance to say something that might technically count as "centaur", but that isn't really what people mean by the term. It's the delay in waiting for human input that's the big disadvantage centaur setups have when the human isn't really providing a…

But why would that be a disadvantage large enough to cause the player to lose, which would be necessary for

> pure AI teams tend to be much stronger.

Maybe each turn has a time limit, and a human would need "n moments" to make the final judgement call whereas the AI could delay the final decision right to the last moment for it's final analysis? So the pure AI player gets an additional 10-30s to simulate the game essentially?

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#207

Post by bitwize »

throw310822 wrote: post #56

Famously Steve Jobs said that the (personal) computer is "like a bicycle for the mind". It's a great metaphor because- besides the idea of lightness and freedom it communicates- it also described the computer as multiplier of the human strength- the bicycle allows one to travel faster and with much less effort, it's true, but ultimately the source of its power is still entirely in the muscles of the cyclist- you don'…

AI is a Boston taxicab:

* You have to tell it which way to go every step of the way

* Odds are good it'll still drop you off at the wrong place

* You have to pay not only for being taken to the wrong place, but now also for the ride to get you where you wanted to go in the first place

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#208

Post by [deleted] »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #155

Why does HN love analogies? You can pick any animal or thing and it can fit in some way. Horse is a docile safe analogy it’s also the most obvious analogy. Like yes the world gets it LLMs have limitations thanks for sharing, we know it’s not as good as a programmer. We should use analogies to point out the obvious thing everyone is avoiding: Guys 3 years ago, AI wasn’t even a horse. It was a rock. The key is that it…

[deleted]

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#209

Post by Abstract_Typist »

niam wrote: post #167
threethirtytwo wrote: post #155

Why does HN love analogies? You can pick any animal or thing and it can fit in some way. Horse is a docile safe analogy it’s also the most obvious analogy. Like yes the world gets it LLMs have limitations thanks for sharing, we know it’s not as good as a programmer. We should use analogies to point out the obvious thing everyone is avoiding: Guys 3 years ago, AI wasn’t even a horse. It was a rock. The key is that it…

> Why does HN love analogies? I suppose because they resemble the abstractions that make complex language possible. Another world full of aggressive posturing at tweet-length analogistic musings might have stifled some useful English parlance early. But I reckon that we shouldn't have called it phishing because emails don't always smell.

> I suppose because they resemble the abstractions that make complex language possible

As in models: All analogies are "wrong", some analogies are useful.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#210

Post by dugidugout »

the_af wrote: post #199
dugidugout wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know pre-AI cheats have ruined some online games, so I'm not sure it's an encouraging thought... Will you be even more discouraged if I share that "table flipping" and "sleight of hand" have ruined many tabletop games? Are you pressed to find a competitive match in your game-of-choice currently? I can recommend online mahjong! Here is a game that emphasizes art in permutations just as chess does, but every act yo…

I'm honestly not following your argument here. I'm also not convinced by comparisons between AI and things that aren't AI or even automated. > Will you be even more discouraged if I share that "table flipping" and "sleight of hand" have ruined many tabletop games? What does this have to do with AI or online games? You cannot do either of those in online games. You also cannot shove the other person aside, punch them…

We are likely on different footing as I quite enjoy games of all form. Here is my attempt to formalize my argument:

Claim 1: Cheating is endemic to competition across all formats (physical or digital)

Claim 2: Despite this, games survive and thrive because people value the competitive spirit itself

Claim 3: The appreciation of play isn't destroyed by the existence of cheaters (even "cheaters" who simply surpass human reasoning)

The mahjong suggestion isn't a non-sequitur (while still an earnest suggestion), it was to exemplify my personal engagement with the spirit of competition and how it completely side-steps the issue you are wary is existential.

> I think some of this boils down to whether one believes AI is just like past phenomenons, or whether it's significantly different. It's probably too early to tell.

I suppose I am not clear on your concern. Online gaming is demonstrably still growing and I think the chess example is a touching story of humanism prevailing. "AI" has been mucking with online gaming for decades now, can you qualify why this is so different now?

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