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Presence in Death

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Re: Presence in Death

#11

Post by fpoling »

michaelsbradley wrote: post #6
fpoling wrote: post #5

There are stories about bodies of Christian monks that did not decompose for a log time after the dearth. Modern take on it attributes it to the climate in caves where the body was put after the dearth. But another important part was diet. Often the well-preserved bodies were of those who had eaten only rough bread and water for months and years before the dearth. So I suspect both of the factors are at the play here…

I think you’re referring to the phenomenon named “incorruptibility”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorruptibility Recent case, died 2019, found not decomposed in 2023, had not been embalmed, unsealed wood coffin: https://www.ncregister.com/cna/incorrupt-body-of-sister-wilh...

In "The Brothers Karamazov" by Fyodor Dostoevsky describes sort-of the opposite process. A body of monk who had been considered a living saint started to smell on the second day after his dearth. That made everybody to realize that he was the opposite of the saint. And then another monk mentioned that eating sweets and cakes could not lead to sainthood.

Re: Presence in Death

#12

Post by gus_massa »

fpoling wrote: post #11
michaelsbradley wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re referring to the phenomenon named “incorruptibility”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorruptibility Recent case, died 2019, found not decomposed in 2023, had not been embalmed, unsealed wood coffin: https://www.ncregister.com/cna/incorrupt-body-of-sister-wilh...

In "The Brothers Karamazov" by Fyodor Dostoevsky describes sort-of the opposite process. A body of monk who had been considered a living saint started to smell on the second day after his dearth. That made everybody to realize that he was the opposite of the saint. And then another monk mentioned that eating sweets and cakes could not lead to sainthood.

Assuming no supernatural forces, can this sweets adversion be explained by the fat vs muscle ratio in the body?

Re: Presence in Death

#13

Post by lkuty »

theptip wrote: post #10

Some of these esoteric states are really weird, and it seems crazy to me that we are only now investigating them. This isn’t just “energy” woo that can’t be measured, there are clear physical phenomena. Another good one is Niroda Samapatti (cessation) where advanced meditators can momentarily cease awareness https://awakeningdharma.org/havard-study-on-nirodha-samapatt...

Made me think of "How to do the jhanas" by Nadia Asparouhova: https://nadia.xyz/jhanas Cessation is impressive and the rest too.

Re: Presence in Death

#14

Post by ynac »

Since we're of a certain level of interest and openness, I'll throw a pop fiction title into the mix: Dan Brown's /Secret of Secrets/ for a tip toe through the non-local mind and soul topic. It's a 4 index card book for me - meaning I have 4 index cards of notes, references, and words worthy of reflection or research. Pretty good for a fiction best seller.

Re: Presence in Death

#15

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

jadbox wrote: post #4

If TRUE and consciousness is eternal (using whatever framework you like), the idea of death becomes double sided. On one hand, physical death is sad as it's the end of this physical 'epic story' before our consciousness moves onto a new body/story. On the flip side, approaching body death is a sort of a temporary great relief as we are immortal and cannot actually die. I.e. After ten thousand years of being alive, a…

Don't vampires sleep in the day? I read the tech manual, no personal experience, ahem.

Re: Presence in Death

#16

Post by snozolli »

fpoling wrote: post #5

There are stories about bodies of Christian monks that did not decompose for a log time after the dearth. Modern take on it attributes it to the climate in caves where the body was put after the dearth. But another important part was diet. Often the well-preserved bodies were of those who had eaten only rough bread and water for months and years before the dearth. So I suspect both of the factors are at the play here…

I read an article about this years ago and came away with the impression that they were effectively mummifying themselves before death. From the Wikipedia page on sokushinbutsu:

In medieval Japan, this tradition developed a process for sokushinbutsu, which a monk completed over about 3,000 days. It involved a strict diet called mokujiki (literally, 'eating a tree'). The monk abstained from any cereals and relied on pine needles, resins, and seeds found in the mountains, which would eliminate all fat in the body. Increasing rates of fasting and meditation would lead to starvation. The monks would slowly reduce then stop liquid intake, thus dehydrating the body and shrinking all organs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu

Re: Presence in Death

#17

Post by tasuki »

jadbox wrote: post #4

If TRUE and consciousness is eternal (using whatever framework you like), the idea of death becomes double sided. On one hand, physical death is sad as it's the end of this physical 'epic story' before our consciousness moves onto a new body/story. On the flip side, approaching body death is a sort of a temporary great relief as we are immortal and cannot actually die. I.e. After ten thousand years of being alive, a…

Consciousness is eternal. If your ego is an illusion, who gets reborn?

Re: Presence in Death

#18

Post by soliax »

ynac wrote: post #14

Since we're of a certain level of interest and openness, I'll throw a pop fiction title into the mix: Dan Brown's /Secret of Secrets/ for a tip toe through the non-local mind and soul topic. It's a 4 index card book for me - meaning I have 4 index cards of notes, references, and words worthy of reflection or research. Pretty good for a fiction best seller.

[dead]

Re: Presence in Death

#19

Post by niemandhier »

Interesting thing I learned: Once you die the biome in your intestines massively contributes to processes that breakdown your body. That’s why decapitated heads are often in much better shape then the remaining body, especially if the surrounding environment is generally conserving the body, such as is the case in dry mountains or bogs.

Re: Presence in Death

#20

Post by mrexcess »

niemandhier wrote: post #19

Interesting thing I learned: Once you die the biome in your intestines massively contributes to processes that breakdown your body. That’s why decapitated heads are often in much better shape then the remaining body, especially if the surrounding environment is generally conserving the body, such as is the case in dry mountains or bogs.

From my understanding of the Buddhist process described here, the ritual often begins days or weeks before death, and includes exclusive consumption of substances like plant tars that dramatically reduce the presence of gut bacteria, and that this effect rather than anything supernatural is what most attribute to the most significant decay processes being temporarily inhibited - there's no gut bacteria left to decompose the body from the inside out.
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