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AI is a horse (2024)

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Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#181

Post by ffsm8 »

famouswaffles wrote: post #160
ffsm8 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would pure ai ever be "much stronger" in this scenario? That doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever, it can only be "equally strong", making the approach non-viable because they're not providing any value... But the only way for the human in the loop to add an actual demerit, you'd have to include time taken for each move into the final score, which isn't normal in chess. But I'm not knowledgeable on the topic,…

You can be so far ahead of someone, their input (if you act on it) can only make things worse. That's it. If a human 'teams up' with chess AI today and does anything other than agree with its moves, it will just drag things down.

But how specifically in Chess?

These human in the loop systems basically lists possible moves with likelihood of winning, no?

So how would the human be a demerit? It'd mean that the human for some reason decided to always use the option that the ai wouldn't take, but how would that make sense? Then the AI would list the "correct" move with a higher likelihood of winning.

The point of this strategy was to mitigate traps, but this would now have to become inverted: the opponent AI would have to be able to gaslight the human into thinking he's stopping his AI from falling into a trap. While that might work in a few cases, the human would quickly learn that his ability to overrule the optimal choice is flawed, thus reverting it back to baseline where the human is essentially a non-factor and not a demerit

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#183

Post by embedding-shape »

pglevy wrote: post #176
simonw wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been calling LLMs "electric bicycles for the mind", inspired by that Jobs quote. - some bicycle purists consider electric bicycles to be "cheating" - you get less exercise from an electric bicycle - they can get you places really effectively! - if you don't know how to ride a bicycle an electric bicycle is going to quickly lead you to an accident

Moped for the mind has a nice ring to it

I feel like both moped and electric bike misses the mark of the initial analogy, so does tractor too. Because they're not able to get good results without someone putting in the work ("energy") at some higher part of the process. It's not "at the push of a button/twist of the wrist" like with electric bikes or mopeds, but being able to know where/how to push actually gets you reliable results. Like a bicycle.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#184

Post by threethirtytwo »

niam wrote: post #167
threethirtytwo wrote: post #155

Why does HN love analogies? You can pick any animal or thing and it can fit in some way. Horse is a docile safe analogy it’s also the most obvious analogy. Like yes the world gets it LLMs have limitations thanks for sharing, we know it’s not as good as a programmer. We should use analogies to point out the obvious thing everyone is avoiding: Guys 3 years ago, AI wasn’t even a horse. It was a rock. The key is that it…

> Why does HN love analogies? I suppose because they resemble the abstractions that make complex language possible. Another world full of aggressive posturing at tweet-length analogistic musings might have stifled some useful English parlance early. But I reckon that we shouldn't have called it phishing because emails don't always smell.

If you ever heard a sermon by a priest it’s loaded with analogies. Everyone loves analogies but analogies are not a form of reason and can often be used to mislead. A lot of these sermons are driven by reasoning via analogy.

My question is more why does HN love analogies when the above is true.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#185

Post by razakel »

oliwary wrote: post #41
BoredomIsFun wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> excellent show "halt and catch fire". I found it very caricature, too saturated with romance - which is untypical for tech environment, much like "big bang theory".

IMO it really came into its own after the first season. S1 felt like mad men but with computers, whereas in the latter seasons it focused more on the characters - quite beautiful and sad at times.

The BBC made a docudrama, Micro Men, with Alexander Armstrong as Clive Sinclair and Martin Freeman as Chris Curry.

Sophie Wilson cameos when they have a fight.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#186

Post by MattGrommes »

whattheheckheck wrote: post #169
aaronharnly wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To keep torturing the metaphor, LLMs might be more like those electric unicycles (Onewheel, Inmotion, etc) – quite speedy, can get you places, less exercise, and also sometimes suddenly choke and send you flying facefirst into gravel. And some people see you whizzing by and think "oh cool", and others see you whizzing by and think "what a tool."

More like the Segway... really cool at first then not really then totally overpriced and failed to revolutionize the industry. And it killed the founder

Just a small correction, the founder of Segway is Dean Kamen who is still alive. It was the then-owner of the company who died.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#187

Post by strbean »

suriya-ganesh wrote: post #113
pmarreck wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony with the chess example is that chess has never been more popular. Perhaps we're about to experience yet another renaissance of computer languages.

Chess being popular is mostly because FIDE had a massive push in the last decade to make it more audience friendly. shorter time formats, more engaging commentary etc. While AI in chess is very cool in its own accord. It is not the driver for the adoption.

Google Trends data for "Chess" worldwide show it trending down from 2004-2016, and then leveling off from 2016 until a massive spike in interest in October 2020, when Queen's Gambit was released. Since then it has had a massive upswing.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#188

Post by soperj »

simonw wrote: post #74
throw310822 wrote: post #56

Famously Steve Jobs said that the (personal) computer is "like a bicycle for the mind". It's a great metaphor because- besides the idea of lightness and freedom it communicates- it also described the computer as multiplier of the human strength- the bicycle allows one to travel faster and with much less effort, it's true, but ultimately the source of its power is still entirely in the muscles of the cyclist- you don'…

I've been calling LLMs "electric bicycles for the mind", inspired by that Jobs quote. - some bicycle purists consider electric bicycles to be "cheating" - you get less exercise from an electric bicycle - they can get you places really effectively! - if you don't know how to ride a bicycle an electric bicycle is going to quickly lead you to an accident

Most people I see on their electric bikes aren't even pedaling. They're electric motorcycles, and they're a plague to everyone using pedestrian trails. Some of them are going nearly highway speeds, it's ridiculous.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#189

Post by beepbooptheory »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #155

Why does HN love analogies? You can pick any animal or thing and it can fit in some way. Horse is a docile safe analogy it’s also the most obvious analogy. Like yes the world gets it LLMs have limitations thanks for sharing, we know it’s not as good as a programmer. We should use analogies to point out the obvious thing everyone is avoiding: Guys 3 years ago, AI wasn’t even a horse. It was a rock. The key is that it…

If an analogy is an "obvious" analogy that makes it definitionally a good analogy, right? Either way: don't see why you gotta be so prescriptive about it one way or the other! You can just say you disagree.

Re: AI is a horse (2024)

#190

Post by arthurfirst »

Force multiplier and power projector.

Requires ammo (tokens) which can be expensive.

Requires good aim to hit the target.

Requires practice to get good aim.

Dangerous in the hands of the unskilled (like most instruments or tools).

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