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What has Docker become?

tuananh.net

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Re: What has Docker become?

#201

Post by ragall »

nyrikki wrote: post #114
dralley wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't help them that they rejected the traditionally successful ways of monetizing open source software. Which is, selling support contracts to large corporate users. Corporate customers didn't like the security implications of the Docker daemon running as root, they wanted better sandboxing and management (cgroups v2), wanted to be able to run their own internal registries, didn't want to have docker trying to f…

Unfortunately even podman etc.. are still limited by OCIs decision to copy the Docker model. Crun just stamp couples security profiles as an example, so everything in the shared kernel that is namespace incompatible is enabled. This is why it is trivial to get in-auditable communication between pods on a host etc…

> Unfortunately even podman etc.. are still limited by OCIs decision to copy the Docker model.

Which parts of the model are you referring to ?

Re: What has Docker become?

#202

Post by shykes »

linkage wrote: post #170
shykes wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes :) We heard the feedback that we should pick a lane between CI and AI agents. We're refocusing on CI. We're making Dagger faster, simpler to adopt. We're also building a complete CI stack that is native to Dagger. The end-to-end integration allows us to do very magical things that traditional CI products cannot match. We're looking for beta testers! Email me at solomon@dagger.io

Dagger has been a godsend in helping me cope with the unending misery that is GitHub Actions. A big thanks to you and the whole team at Dagger for making this possible.

Thank you for the kind words! I'd love to show you a demo of the new features we're working on, and get your thoughts. Want to DM me on the Dagger discord server? Or email me at solomon@dagger.io

Re: What has Docker become?

#204

Post by Spivak »

forty wrote: post #178
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #168

> For developers, this doesn’t change much. Docker containers will continue to work, and the open source nature of Docker means the technology will persist regardless of what happens to the company. But it’s worth watching how Docker Inc’s search for identity plays out - it could affect the ecosystem of tools and services built around containers. Things will actually change quite a bit. First of all, millions of peop…

Why do you say podman is a poor replacement? It has been consistently a better replacement for me on Linux, with easy rootless, daemon less, quadlet, etc. And at work where I have to use macos, it works just as well.

Yeah, people are sleeping on Podman who is now genuinely leading the space now that docker-engine is all but in maintenance mode.

Quadlets are amazing and greatly simplify the deployment and management of containers.

The systemd integration is so good because you have this battle tested process manager with a gazillion features and you can use them with your containers for free.

Podman can run pods, hence the name, which is an abstraction that k8s has proven is useful but docker completely lacks.

Podman pushing k8s manifests as an (imho better) compose with podman play is refreshing. And it can be dropped in with Quadlets too.

Podman can generate your k8s manifests from your running containers. Get everything running how you like and save.

buildah frees you from Dockerfile and lets you build containers completely rootlesslessly.

Re: What has Docker become?

#206

Post by unitexe »

szszrk wrote: post #197
unitexe wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be the way. Short of weeding through the docs, I found the "Play with Kube using Podman" talk on DevConfs YouTube channel helpful.

I will be honest: that is even more confusing :) > Note: The kube commands in podman focus on simplifying the process of moving containers from podman to a Kubernetes environment and from a Kubernetes environment back to podman. I'll give it a try, but I'm starting to understand why there is so little use of podman among amateurs.

Personally, I am not interested in kubernetes, just podman for single-node use case. What the kube YAML does for this use case is provide a way to declare a multi-container application.

The podman documentation pages I have found most helpful for this use case are podman-kube-generate (generate kube YAML from an already running pod), podman-kube-play (run the kube manually) and podman-systemd.unit (run the kube as a service).

Edit: I should also mention that there are pod units (which don't require the use of kube YAML) but I skipped over them because they do not support podmans auto-update feature.

Re: What has Docker become?

#207

Post by starkparker »

forty wrote: post #178
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #168

> For developers, this doesn’t change much. Docker containers will continue to work, and the open source nature of Docker means the technology will persist regardless of what happens to the company. But it’s worth watching how Docker Inc’s search for identity plays out - it could affect the ecosystem of tools and services built around containers. Things will actually change quite a bit. First of all, millions of peop…

Why do you say podman is a poor replacement? It has been consistently a better replacement for me on Linux, with easy rootless, daemon less, quadlet, etc. And at work where I have to use macos, it works just as well.

The interfaces, CLI and Podman Desktop, are still not at parity. Podman contributors will be the first to tell you this.

That's not to say they aren't effective, or even good, at least for the CLI. They're just still catching up. It's not and shouldn't be a surprise considering the head start.

Re: What has Docker become?

#208

Post by shykes »

logube wrote: post #205
shykes wrote: post #133

Hi, I'm the founder of Docker. I started it in 2008 (under the name Dotcloud) and left in 2018. AMA.

Did you know Solaris zones at all before creating Docker?

Yes, of course. I was also an avid user of vserver and openvz on Linux, back when they required patching the kernel, and lxc didn't exist yet.

When we open sourced Docker, we had considerable experience running openvz in production, as well as migrating to lxc - a miserable experience in the early days because the paint was still so fresh. To my knowledge we were the very first production deployment of managed databases and multi-tenant application servers on lxc, back in 2010.

It's a common misconception that Docker was a naive reinvention of, or a thin wrapper around, pre-existing technology like solaris zones or lxc. In reality that is not the case. Those technologies were always intended as alternative forms of virtualization: a new way to slice up a machine. Docker was the first to use container and copy-on-write tech for the purpose of packaging and distributing applications, rather than provisioning machines. Before Docker, nobody would ever consider running a linux container or solaris zone on top of a VM: that would be nonsensical because they were considered to be at the same layer of the stack. Sun invented a lot of things, but they did not everything :)

Re: What has Docker become?

#209

Post by eYrKEC2 »

whinvik wrote: post #13

Sorry off topic question but has Docker come up with a easy to use dev solution. I always end up with using Devcontainer: it solves the sandboxed, ready to use dev env. But the actual experience with developing on VSCode with Dev Containers is not great. It's laggy and slow.

My one experience with dev containers put me off of dev containers... but standard `docker compose` is just great for me.

I worked at a company where we were trying to test code with our product and, for a time, everyone on the team was given a mandate to go out and find X number of open source projects to test against, every week.

Independently, every member of the (small) team settled on only trying to test repos where you could do:

        get clone repo && cd repo && docker compose up
Everything else was just a nightmare to boot up their environment in a reasonable amount of time.

Re: What has Docker become?

#210

Post by shykes »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #203
incognito124 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's next for Dagger? Any upcoming features?

Wait Dagger and Docker are related?

Yes, I am the co-founder of Docker and also of Dagger. The other two co-founders of Dagger, Sam Alba and Andrea Luzzardi, were early employees of Docker.

The companies themselves are not related beyond that.

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