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Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

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Re: Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

#71

Post by rendaw »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #58
bawolff wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it crazy that people would ask you in that direction. I would wonder why anyone would chose Turso over SQLite. SQLite is some of the most battle tested software in the world. Turso seems like relatively new software that is still a bit experimental. You do not want your databases to be new or trendy. You want your databases to be solid as a rock.

Sqlite had such a stellar stellar reputation, for so many excellent reasons. I still find it absolutely freakish & abominable that people are so incredibly touchy & reflexively mean & vile to Turso. I've seen a couple Turso centric YouTube's recently and there are dozens and dozens of up votes for what just seems like the most petulant vacuous reflexive bitter viewed comments, dominating the comments. Sqlite deserves…

I definitely feel this. So many "I made an alternative to X that fixes these issues, or is better in these ways" met with "Well X is fine for me, and I don't need those things, so why change?" These posts are obviously meant for adventurers, people looking to improve on the status quo, have some experimental budget left, etc.

Reading the repo, I'm not sure what it offers. It's still CGO for Go (edit: it's not, it's purego, but can that be used for SQLite too?), Rust already has `rusqlite`. It's beta, so it doesn't have stability, and 99% of why I and many other people choose SQLite is stability.

But they bluntly say you should use it instead of SQLite: "The next evolution of SQLite" (trademark ok?). This not only implies that SQLite has some significant design issues that merit a new version, but it also implies that they, not the SQLite author, are the ones who are capable of doing this. My guess is this is what's rubbing so many people the wrong way.

It's not being sold on its merits, and I think if they're going to make that sort of statement it's fair to make the standard somewhat high. If it's an AI-oriented database, sell it that way, not as an SQLite replacement.

I don't think uv had a negative reaction, because it had a really compelling case.

Re: Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

#72

Post by ako »

formerly_proven wrote: post #69
ako wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using a sqlite alternative to avoid dependencies on a native library. It's go application that uses a native go sqlite reimplementation so i can create platform specific binaries that include all dependencies. Makes installation easier and more reliable.

modernc.org/sqlite is upstream SQLite, compiled to Go using ccgo. Spiritually similar to, say, a WASM build of SQLite. Not a separate reimplementation.

Aha, wasn't aware, good to know, thanks.

Re: Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

#73

Post by anentropic »

bawolff wrote: post #48
maxpert wrote: post #34

Disclaimer: I am author of Marmot https://github.com/maxpert/marmot so I will sound extremely bias. I have been asked multiple times on why I chose SQLite and not Turso. I've always responded people that I don't trust an open-source project once it's backed by a VC firm. I've moved away from Redis to Val-Key for same reason, and we have seen the Redis train-wreck in slow-mo. I hope at no point in future Turso ever en…

I find it crazy that people would ask you in that direction. I would wonder why anyone would chose Turso over SQLite. SQLite is some of the most battle tested software in the world. Turso seems like relatively new software that is still a bit experimental. You do not want your databases to be new or trendy. You want your databases to be solid as a rock.

> I would wonder why anyone would chose Turso over SQLite

well, Turso adds features

otherwise yeah, there'd be no reason

Re: Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

#74

Post by bawolff »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #66
bawolff wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if this is better? If it was actually better you would probably be describing how and why you think its better instead of complaining about "negativity".

Pretty good vector processing built-in. Time series capabilities. Nice Change-Data-Capture table that I've used & loved. Rust which is easy as hell to embed. Underlying libsqlite is very useful too. The CLI has far better ergonomics than sqlite & good formatting. Async & concurrent writes. Backwards compatibility. Just so ragingly badass. Tries. Isn't narrow & conservative. Amazing test suite. The discussion didn't s…

> Amazing test suite.

Lol, is that a joke.

Seesh.

[To be clear, i think sqlite is the hands down winner on this front, no contest. Does the Turso test suite qualify it to be used in safety critical applications? I don't think so].

To your other points - look if it works for you i'm not here to tell you you can't use it. However these features sound more trendy than useful. To me these sound like negatives. A bunch of extra features not related to being a relational database suggests they aren't concentrating on the core product. I dont know enough about their model for async & concurrent writes to really evaluate the cost/benefit, but both those features sound potentially really scary and of questionable value.

At the end of the day its just not a compelling pitch. It seems like trading reliability and stability for a bunch of meaningless bling.

Best of luck to them, but at this point yeah, sqlite sounds like a much better option to me.

Re: Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

#75

Post by beyondCritics »

renewiltord wrote: post #43
blibble wrote: post #16

the description as "the next evolution of sqlite" is offensive D. Richard Hipp has done a universal good for the world by releasing sqlite into the public domain and maintaining it for 25 years I bet this VC funded knockoff won't see 5

[flagged]

They are giving their stuff away for free, hence they can do whatever they want. It goes without saying, that spiritual teachings are not there to create quarrel and division.

Re: Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

#76

Post by IshKebab »

renewiltord wrote: post #43
blibble wrote: post #16

the description as "the next evolution of sqlite" is offensive D. Richard Hipp has done a universal good for the world by releasing sqlite into the public domain and maintaining it for 25 years I bet this VC funded knockoff won't see 5

[flagged]

I'm very happy for my software not to come with religious proselytising.

Re: Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

#77

Post by everfrustrated »

XorNot wrote: post #4

I'm confused why I would use this when Sqlite exists? Being written in Rust it's not even a good libc-less drop in choice for a language like Go?

The entire reason behind Turso is that the author had a beef with the sqlite people.

Re: Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

#78

Post by jauntywundrkind »

bawolff wrote: post #74
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty good vector processing built-in. Time series capabilities. Nice Change-Data-Capture table that I've used & loved. Rust which is easy as hell to embed. Underlying libsqlite is very useful too. The CLI has far better ergonomics than sqlite & good formatting. Async & concurrent writes. Backwards compatibility. Just so ragingly badass. Tries. Isn't narrow & conservative. Amazing test suite. The discussion didn't s…

> Amazing test suite. Lol, is that a joke. Seesh. [To be clear, i think sqlite is the hands down winner on this front, no contest. Does the Turso test suite qualify it to be used in safety critical applications? I don't think so]. To your other points - look if it works for you i'm not here to tell you you can't use it. However these features sound more trendy than useful. To me these sound like negatives. A bunch of…

It's just so wild to me that people are so married to anti-features like this. That anti-interest do possesses the modern spirit, enraptures people so.

'i don't know what it is but I'm not interested and it's probably scarey' is not, imo, befitting the cultures I personally want to see. There's times and places for extreme conservatism, but generally I am far more here for progress, for trying for aspiring to better, and I thought that was so clearly what the hacker spirit was about.

Re: Turso is an in-process SQL database, compatible with SQLite

#79

Post by miohtama »

bawolff wrote: post #49
sealeck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the point of Turso was to offer better concurrency than SQLite currently does. A la https://turso.tech/blog/beyond-the-single-writer-limitation-... and https://penberg.org/papers/penberg-edgesys24.pdf Would be great if one of the Turso developers can clarify :)

Honestly, if you care about that level of concurrency, it begs the question of why are you using an in process database in the first place?

One reason is that architecture and maintenance are much simpler
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