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Proton spam and the AI consent problem

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Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#41

Post by fergie »

robin_reala wrote: post #18
fergie wrote: post #15

> Proton for Business newsletter AFAIK you are legally allowed to spam businesses, but not individuals. A handy get-out clause for marketeers.

How do you know the address you’re emailing belongs to a business? The head of A&A ISP in the UK used to regularly win ~£100 judgements in small claims from spammers because his personal email was leased for a nominal fee from aa.net.uk, the same domain as his business.

OP had checked that they would like to receive the "Proton for Business newsletter", and on that basis was deemed a "business".

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#42

Post by danielhep »

This problem, along with general annoyances at Proton’s lack of focus on a good email experience pushed me over the edge to move to Fastmail. I’m so much happier. Proton Mail Bridge would often pin one core of my laptop CPU, draining my battery, and it was still slow to sync new email. With Fastmail, incoming mail is so fast that the verification codes are already there before I can alt tab over.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#43

Post by petesergeant »

robin_reala wrote: post #18
fergie wrote: post #15

> Proton for Business newsletter AFAIK you are legally allowed to spam businesses, but not individuals. A handy get-out clause for marketeers.

How do you know the address you’re emailing belongs to a business? The head of A&A ISP in the UK used to regularly win ~£100 judgements in small claims from spammers because his personal email was leased for a nominal fee from aa.net.uk, the same domain as his business.

I mean that's cute and all, but it's a party trick, and very unlikely it caused any actual behaviour to change.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#44

Post by contubernio »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #19

I think we must make it clear that this is not related to AI at all, even if the product in question is AI-related. It is a very common problem with modern marketing teams, that have zero empathy for customers (even if they have one, they will never push back on whatever insane demands come from senior management). This is why any email subscription management interface now is as bloated as a dead whale. If too many…

The problem is not just empathy. It is also ethics. The fine distinction between opting out of A and opting out of B described in the post served to justify ignoring the opt out request. That's lazy ethically. The entire US business sector's customer relations are completely compromised ethically. It's taken to extremes in tech contexts.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#45

Post by stackghost »

usefulposter wrote: post #40
chc4 wrote: post #7

I saw a Mastodon tweet a while ago, which went something like: Do tech companies understand consent?: - [ ] Yes - [ ] Ask me again in a few days

Hey, that sounds like Signal! https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4590 >We're not going to remove the reminders. >If you don't want to provide that access, you still don't need to – you can simply tap remind me later once a month (See also: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4373 , https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/5809 , ...)

Signal is an interesting case study in UX failure. I and a bunch of other tech forward people were on it in its heyday but after they removed SMS support and implemented shitty UX like that nag dialog: Neither I nor a single person I know uses it any more. Everyone is on Whatsapp or iMessage.

It may be cryptographically superior, but does that matter at the end of the day if nobody uses it?

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#46

Post by genewitch »

perching_aix wrote: post #9

I have a Proton mailbox I specifically keep around to serve as a honeypot, for tracking when one of the many annoying little services will inevitably mishandle the contact address I hand them. Over the years, the only spam I ever received there was from Proton. Quite the way to recalibrate my expectations, eh?

i think i have a proton email address, but i never used it. i wonder.

but i pay fastmail a whopping $15/yr to give me mailboxes on my domain, which i have always heard is a good way to track who's selling your data.

So far, nothing has made it past the spam filter, and i don't check spam (how many valid emails have you found in spam in the last 5 years?); that being said apparently no one is selling my email address anymore. or, and this is a significant possibility: when i tell them companynickname@mydomain.li they just ignore the domain and put in gmail? For instance i gave Take5 "take5@" as my email and i never received anything from them. The guy even said "No; your email address" with a weird half smile; then i explained it's my own website and email, i can use any email address i want; that it will alert me if someone sells my email address.

I doubt there's a flag on the auto oil shop's CRM or POS or whatever for "customer states they're proactive about email spam and their privacy"

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#47

Post by bayindirh »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #27
chc4 wrote: post #7

I saw a Mastodon tweet a while ago, which went something like: Do tech companies understand consent?: - [ ] Yes - [ ] Ask me again in a few days

This. We must change laws that the above field is not considered as given consent. And while we are at it, we must change "silence is agreement" to "silence is disagreement". This applies to change of ToS, price increases etc. That means if I don't click a link with a button "I agree", the ToS change is not accepted - that means they have to cancel/delete my account.

Didn't FCC remove "1-click unsubscribe" requirement since it can "provide more choice and lower prices to all users across the board" (since the companies can rip off more users and create pseudo-lower prices)?

EU has its GPDR and it has some teeth, but US is currently hopeless on that front, for now, from my vantage point.

I'd love to be stand corrected though.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#50

Post by antonyh »

I got the same email on the same date. Unsubscribe told me it was from the 'important announcements' list - I fail to see how this could possibly fall into that category.

I guess I can't have important announcements from Proton in the future if it's polluted with these low value messages.

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